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To: who_would_fardels_bear
But from a non-Calvinist point of view people can freely choose to worry or not as they please.

Is the natural man "free" to choose righteousness?

And having free independent beings in a universe all of a sudden makes it a much more interesting place that is more worthy of an almighty God

Worthy? You believe fallen man is "worthy" of God?

Read Romans.

75 posted on 06/09/2009 12:05:08 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And having free independent beings in a universe all of a sudden makes it a much more interesting place that is more worthy of an almighty God"

Worthy? You believe fallen man is "worthy" of God??

So I clearly talk about whether or not the universe as envisioned by Calvinists is worthy of an all-knowing, all-powerful God and you somehow read that as meaning that I said something about "fallen man" being worthy of God.

Instead of reading Romans, maybe you need to go back to reading McGuffey's.

In any case free men will make bad choices, but they will make choices. Do I like the fact that free men make bad choices? No. Do I believe that the bad choices that free men make are worthy of God. No. What I do find worthy of God is that he would make us free and allow us to do our thing and somehow still be able to make His will come about.

Do I like the fact that thousands of people are killed in automobile accidents every year? No. Do I like the fact that someone invented the automobile making it easy for people to get around to do their daily business? Yes. Unfortunately we can't seem to have the one without the other, but some day we may get there.

If we were created in God's image, what does that mean? Does that mean that God has two arms and two legs and is relatively free of hair? I hardly think so. Does it mean that God is capable of using tools and is capable of interacting socially with other similar beings? I hardly think that that is what is meant by "image".

After years of intensive studies comparing humans with the rest of creation, pretty much the only thing we seem to have that they don't is free will. Our every definition of God is definitive that He has free will as well. Might this not be the quality that allows us to agree with the Bible and claim that we have some likeness to God, however pale in comparison?

And again it has nothing to do with me trying to pretend that I am hot stuff. If anything I have low self-esteem. God doesn't need me to argue in his favor, but the truth needs to be told. And the truth is that if humanity is allowed to flourish over the next million years or so we may some day be able to create solar systems and even galaxies. Such works of engineering may become child's play at some time. But design and build even one other being from scratch that has free will. Now that's something!

Praise be to God!

83 posted on 06/10/2009 11:00:20 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear (The cosmos is about the smallest hole a man can stick his head in. - Chesterton)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Worthy? You believe fallen man is "worthy" of God?

Uh, he was referring to the Universe:

...place that is more worthy of an almighty God.

99 posted on 06/11/2009 7:09:05 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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