Microbes to Convert Coal to Methane and Algae Fuel are Both Close to Industrial Scaleup

Next Big Future ^ | Apr. 3, 2009 | Brian Wang

[decimon]

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Biofuels technologies appear capable of someday producing 200,000 barrels of jet fuel a day—enough to supply the needs of the U.S. Air Force—from algae grown on less than 800,000 acres. [10-11 gallons per day or 3650-4000 gallons per year] “It’s not crazy to imagine that by the year 2050 we (the United States) could become an oil exporter again,” Briggs said. 80 million acres would replace the current oil demand of the United States. 3% of total land in the United States. Other estimates are 1-2% or less as the processes are improved. Light pipes allow for deeper algae ponds and over ten times more efficient land usage.

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[Brilliant]

You sound like one of these politicians who’s convinced he knows how to do things better than the free market. If turning coal into gas were “much cheaper” than drilling for it, that’s what we’d do. The reality is that the only reason coal is “cheap” is that the demand for coal is very much less than the demand for gas relative to the supply. If we got our gas from coal, our coal supply would be exhausted in just a few years. Back in the 50’s, there was a lot of talk about the fact that our coal supply was going to be exhausted in less than 50 years. Now they say that we have more than a 200 year supply of coal. The reason is simple. We don’t use much coal anymore. During the 50’s, we used it for just about everything. I’m content to let the markets decide these things. Free markets are what made this country great. And the free market is what decided that we should get our gas by drilling, not by converting coal to gas. Use our coal to do things that gas cannot do as efficiently.

[dangerdoc]

I don’t know where you get your facts.

Back in the 70’s, the country made a major move towards coal, not away. There is currently tremendous government pressure to move away from coal based on stricter air quality controls and limitations on construction of new coal fired plants. Obama is trying to execute the industry outright with Carbon credits. Regardless, a large percentage of electricity is still produced by coal which was previously produced with petroleum.

Coal is the only fuel that we have an abundance of. We currently import both oil and NG.

The only thing that coal can do that gas cannot do efficiently is provide coke and coal tar.

I didn’t say that turning coal to gas is much cheaper than drilling for it. What I said is that NG is a better fuel than coal which is true. I said that NG is getting expensive enough that coal gasification is becoming attractive which is true. You said “Converting coal to methane is sort of like converting gold to lead.” which is just plain not true.

It is fair that you wouldn’t take my word for it, but do me a favor, look into the facts.

[thackney]

Converting coal to methane is sort of like converting gold to lead.

In 2008 the average price per BTU of energy was:

$2.07/BTU for Coal

$9.11/BTU for Natural Gas

$10.96/BTU for Petroleum (mixed types, averaged prices)

$20.08/BTU for Distillate Fuel Oil

Cost of Fossil-Fuel Receipts at Electric Generating Plants
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/mer/pdf/pages/sec9_15.pdf

[Brilliant]

You can’t measure it simply by the btus. And how much does it cost for NG produced from coal?

[thackney]

You can’t measure it simply by the btus.

How would you measure it?

You statement seemed to claim coal was far more valuable than Natural Gas. A generating station needs to produce heat to turn the turbine to turn the generator. It is a heat engine.

And how much does it cost for NG produced from coal?

The purchaser is not going to care how the gas was produced. Pipeline quality Natural Gas has the same value regardless of the source.

[Brilliant]

All I was trying to say is that it’s not economical to convert coal to NG. Otherwise, the market would do it.

We don’t need a cheerleading squad for coal gasification. Just let the market decide how to do these things.

[dangerdoc]

What you said was “Converting coal to methane is sort of like converting gold to lead.”

My point was methane is a more desirable product. I have never called for the government to spend a dime or that any company procede with such a venture. You on the other hand have attempted to create a number of straw men and then knock them down.

How about this, converting coal to gas is like converting silver to gold.

As for it not being economical that is where American ingenuity comes in. We have a NG shortage, we became a NG importer a few years back. If we can meet that energy need with domestic sources such as coal gasification, it makes us more secure and financialy stronger.

I’m not a left winger trying to stop coal mining, I think we need to be mining more and finding more uses for it.

“We don’t need a cheerleading squad for coal gasification. Just let the market decide how to do these things.”

We also don’t need another anti-coal hit squad. Do you think that the current government want us to have more reliable affordable energy? If someone is working on another practical use for coal, they need to be cheered on. If they are successful, they will do more good for this country than every one of us tapping away at our keyboards combined.

[Brilliant]

I’m not anti-coal. Like I said, let the market decide.