How the SCHIP Tobacco Tax Will Effect Non-Smokers

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Letter-to-Editor.htm?EdNo=001&InfoNo=047954 ^ | 3/29/09

[merican]

What I don't see happening is a large increase in the use of these other drugs just because we legalize marijuana. I don't doubt that the DEA will always try to keep their funding at present levels or higher and grow as an organization. We don't have to let that happen though.

[Clinging Bitterly]

I haven't seen that in my neck of the woods.

It has been proportional to the taxes in particular states, but this new 0bama tax is significant and the black market will grow.

Right now the biggest supply lines are via internet orders from abroad and some stateside indian reservations. But those sources are becoming more difficult and risky to use due to increasing cooperation between governments in enacting various reporting requirements. Still, the volume is huge, and usually small orders direct to individual consumers, so customs only catches a small percentage of them. Under previous administrations the US Postal Service has resisted pressure to become an enforcement agent, but I'm betting that will change soon enough, and USPS does have the technology to do the job efficiently.

So that leaves smuggling in the traditional sense, across overland borders. Already well established between Mexico and Arizona/California, it will increase. To boost margins, it may be counterfeit product made in sweatshops out of who knows what. Add to that, organized breakins of stores and stateside distribution centers, and perhaps more armed hijackings.

No good will come of any of that.

[Madame Dufarge]

What I don't see happening is a large increase in the use of these other drugs just because we legalize marijuana.

Neither do I.

[elkfersupper]

The sad thing is that the smuggled tobacco products will be those that are grown and manufactured here, exported, then imported for sale on the street at a lower price.

Along with drug legalization, we should re-legalize tobacco.

(While we're at it, we should consider re-legalizing booze).

[Eric Blair 2084]

[elkfersupper]

None of those things you mentioned goes untaxed.

They are just not (now) taxed as viciously as tobacco (give our Imperial Congress time).

[elkfersupper]

I don't really have a problem with taxing cigarettes, even at a higher rate than most products...

Why?

[elkfersupper]

Everyone around here seems to be buying from the local Indian tribe. Indians don’t get taxed, which is just more ‘equal justice’ nonsense.

They have to pay the fed. taxes, they don't have to pay the state taxes.

The cost of their tobacco is going up as well.

[elkfersupper]

Amen.

[elkfersupper]

I don't plan on buying from the black market

It is your duty to buy from the black market.

Excising and smuggling

[merican]

Because they are a harmful product. Health care costs and other costs associated with smoking do end up being paid for by non smokers. It seems fair to me for smokers to pay a little more because of this, and I'm a smoker. I feel the same way about alcohol, and I drink a little alcohol. I don't really have that much of a problem with “sin taxes,” but when cigarette taxes get so high that the revenue they generate is more than the cost of smoking to society the taxes aren't fair, and if taxes are so high they encourage a big black market then they are counterproductive and stupid in addition to being unfair.

I know a lot of people here disagree with me on this, and that's fine. But sin taxes are a fact of life. We're going to have them. As long as they aren't too high, they are preferable to and outright ban. We live in a nanny state full of puritans who would ban all vices if they could. A whole lot of people like that are right here on FR. People like this and governments starved for cash are always going to push for sin taxes, both to raise revenues and to discourage vice. I'd rather we didn't have sin taxes, but I recognize that were always going to have them no matter what, so I'm not going to get all bent out of shape by them unless they get too high. When they get to be too high, they are almost like a ban, like prohibition, and that I do have a problem with because prohibition causes us all lots of problems. There is conduct that we should prohibit and maybe even some substances, but prohibition comes with some serious costs of its own, costs to all of us. Prohibiting a product for which there is high demand causes black markets, organized crime always gets involved, we have a certain number of otherwise law abiding citizens who will become criminals, we have government corruption, we have an erosion of the rule of law, freedom is diminished, and so on. Raising taxes to the point where it causes all this is really just about the same thing as prohibition, prohibition light if there is still an operating legal market and a thriving black market because the high taxes drive significant numbers of consumers to the black market.

[Eric Blair 2084]

You really don’t get it do you?

[elkfersupper]

Nazi.

[merican]

“Nazi.”

Mach es dir selber, du Blödes Arschloch.

[merican]

“You really don’t get it do you?”

I get that we're going to have sin taxes no matter what, and that if the government goes too high with them we'll just end up with a black market which will do more harm than good. Revenues will go down and any benefit from the reduction in vice will be negated by the new problems that arise.

[Eric Blair 2084]

OK, you do get it.

[MaxMax]

With the Government growing faster than the private sector, everyone should expect to pay their fair share.
Suckers!

And I have over 25 plants started already. More to come.