[count-your-change]

Then do your finest busting, my chops are intact and in good health. However, no anger please, or at least have the class to call it righteous indignation, and no attributing ill will to the contrary view. It may there but like a noxious weed it only grows hardier when exposed to light.

Lastly, if you please, while being The Buster Of Chops and Destroyer of Young Worlds make your best argument. Too many times these discussions turn into petty face slapping contests that are embarrassing to see let alone join.

I'd rather respect the chops busters than like them.

[Force of Truth]

Then do your finest busting, my chops are intact and in good health. However, no anger please, or at least have the class to call it righteous indignation, and no attributing ill will to the contrary view. It may there but like a noxious weed it only grows hardier when exposed to light.

Lastly, if you please, while being The Buster Of Chops and Destroyer of Young Worlds make your best argument. Too many times these discussions turn into petty face slapping contests that are embarrassing to see let alone join.

I'd rather respect the chops busters than like them.

I hear you. I agree respect is hard to do, especially in a crowd. I'm not knocking ANYONE on this board when I say this, but I'm from the South and things are always tense down here. I don't agree with the libtard idea of these words, but down here there is a level of racism, sexism, and religious bigotry by EVERYONE. I have on many occasions tried to play fair with everyone's ideas and on many occasion get my head chopped of by BOTH sides.

So I understand your frustration, however I always try to hold the debate to CONSISTENCY. I do see religious people go overboard, but what I see just as often is nonreligious people trying to use Science to disprove Faith. I'm not saying that Science can't disprove Faith, but ultimately, Science is not as effective in the Spiritual realm as Philosophy. I don't see the point of an evolutionist (atheist, agnostic, Christian, etc.) trying to argue against the Bible. It makes no sense, because we are talking about a realm that cannot be observed by the human eye. Theology is born and reasoned in the mind and in the soul.

I know a lot of evolutionists are very educated men. They understand the sciences far more than I ever will, but I find that they are, at least, moderately inconsistent in how they view evolution. They will disagree on some very important points of evolution, to me, this shows the weakness of evolutionary theory. No I don't think Creationists are always accurate in their attacks on evolutionists, I think, in part, because of it's inconsistencies. They are often shouted down as insane religious idiots. A lot of hate is on both sides. Two things I would ask any materialist/atheist is

1. If the Trinitarian Orthodox Christian God of The Bible could be proven by science, would you accept Him as your Lord and Master? I venture that most would give a resounding NO!.

2. If all that is in the universe is cold atoms and naked biology, then why do you feel something called Love when you go home to your wife and kids at night?

There are just some things that Science cannot explain, and I wish we were all honest enough to acknowledge this. God made it so we can neither prove Him nor disprove Him with Science alone. The entire human experience must be taken into account. God wants humans to accept Him based on an approving love of Him. He will often not give overwhelming signs, wonders and experiences, and He will not remove all doubt. There will always be doubt on both sides.

I can't explain what came before God, why He didn't created Himself, and many other things about God. But I understand in a finite universe, there must be a First Cause. From there, the events of my life and the spiritual dimension I sense within my mind, body, and soul are just more pieces of the incomplete puzzle that makes up my Faith. I am not an infinite being, so my judgments are flawed. But from what I know, God exists and what I do will effect me for all eternity. (Yes I meant effect, because I am what I do.)

I often think of Pascal's Wager. He makes the challenge that if He is correct that God exists, he has everything to lose for not believing in Him. On the other hand, if God does not exist, what is to lose but a few meaningless years on earth followed by nothing. I tend to agree with Arthur Schopenhauer on this one: not pleasure, but freedom from pain, is what the wise man will aim at. I'm not saying that is always consistent in my life. Very often it is not, but ultimately, this is the choice I make. This choice is so personal that Science cannot even come close to touching.