Posted on 02/11/2009 1:53:16 PM PST by rabscuttle385
All good points and I agree with them all to one extent or another. But — and you knew there had to be one — it bothers me when conservatives offer the blanket concession that social liberalism and the social aspect of libertarianism are one and the same.
To say you are an economic conservative is to say you are a libertarian on 95% of the relevant issues. But to say you are a social liberal isn't anything like saying you are a libertarian on 95% of social issues.
Social liberals are often quite aggressive advocates of using state power to impose their preffered versions of "liberty." Most libertarians are disgusted by thought-policing political correctness, by forced "sensitivity" training, by so-called Hate Crimes tribunals and racial and gender quotas. They detest smoking bans, forced volunteerism and the whole panapoly of Nanny State outrages. They may detest religious incursions on government, but they also detest governmental incursions on religion. Most libertarians are localists who believe that the federal government doesn't have an all purpose writ to make everything better. They believe in the autonomy of business and other institutions to do what they want — within obvious limits — even if what they do is bad.
. . . . .
...liber(al)tarians make a terrible mistake when they assume that a few shared values about what constitutes "social goods" or "tolerance" means that libertarians and liberals actually share a common vision of the role of government.
...liberals are dishonest or ignorant when they claim that they are particularly libertarian in their outlook when, more often, they are merely strong champions of having the State mirror and impose their value choices.
(Excerpt) Read more at corner.nationalreview.com ...
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The “social aspect of libertarianism” varies widely from person to person.
On abortion they split on the extremes...but the national Libertarian party attempts a compromise that is just plain silly, and is essentially pro-abortion.
Because most of them are. That's why.
Limbaugh is top of the heap on this along with that idiot Hannity.
L
Apparently, there are actually some libertarians who are afraid Baptists will try to stop them from fornicating. It's irrational, but it exists. They also seem to think that reading long-winded Ayn Rand novels will somehow protect them from this imaginary threat. But Vegas has never been shut down during conservative Republican administrations.
Frankly, I don't get how the Libertarians support abortion.
The choice argument as put forth by both Libertarians (big-L) and social liberals has a glaring flaw: by choosing to engage in sexual activities that carry the inherent risk of pregnancy, the woman is implicitly choosing to accept that risk. And, as such, if she voluntarily chooses to engage in activities that could potentially lead to pregnancy, she must also simultaneously accept the personal responsibility that is inseparable from her choice. And, if the woman is not of legal age, the responsibility for properly informing the woman, as well as the responsibility for the woman's failures, ought to fall squarely on the heads of her parents or legal guardians.
That said, this argument fails when you consider cases of rape and incest; that's where the waters really are murky.
I didn't say that all conservatives are statists. But I did imply that there are some conservatives who are statists.
The danger with advocating expansion of Government for your own ends is that you are not guaranteed to remain in power perpetually, and as another group that is opposed to you may eventually gain power, and the right to use such Government machinery, that group may elect to use the Government you create...against you.
If a fetus is killing it's mother for whatever medical reason, it's up to the mother if she wants to give her life to her unborn child, or to prevent her own life from being taken.
No matter where you come down on this one, the FedGov has ZERO authority to either forbid or mandate abortion or the financing thereof.
If the fetus is indeed human, the 14th Amendment requires the federal government to act to prevent the deprivation of life without due process.
The 14th Amendment also requires the federal government to have its own definition of what a person is, so, even though that definition was done incorrectly in Roe v. Wade, the federal government will, indeed, determine the legality of abortion nationally.
Lurker is correct. Limbaugh appears to be...a statist.
"We'll take back our government. It's going to be a bigger, more powerful, stronger government and we're going to turn it against the left in ways they could have never imagined."
—Rush Limbaugh, 2009-02-11
What Rush is pointing out is that liberals, in charge now, are going to create a “bigger, more powerful, stronger government” and that government will be in place when the pendulum swings and the people elect a conservative government.
Then the liberals will have to face the monster that they are building with this “stimulus package”.
I don’t listen to Limbaugh much and this quote reminds me why.
“Government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem”. Ronald Reagan (Hannity rocks!)
“No matter where you come down on this one, the FedGov has ZERO authority to either forbid or mandate abortion or the financing thereof.”
Exactly. This Libertarian agrees with that sentence completely.
I think the biggest issue with abortion is the question of whether or not the fetus is living. If alive, no circumstance permits abortion, including cases of rape and incest, unless it threatens the mother’s life.
Part of the problem, at least, is the fact that some liberals call themselves “libertarians”... Arlen Specter used to repeat that he was a “fiscal conservative and a social libertarian”; he was and is neither.
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