[betty boop]

Well as far as we know, dear hosepipe, machines do not "reproduce." Actually, the machine analogy is rather unfortunate. For there is no machine ever built that was not designed and constructed by an intelligent being (i.e., a human), and that it was built for a purpose. (Otherwise, it would not have been built.) These are two things that materialists strenuously deny — (1) design in nature and (2) purpose in nature.

I prefer your rider/donkey analogy to this spirit/machine one. JMHO FWIW

[js1138]

Actually, the machine analogy is rather unfortunate.

The Designer analogy is also rather unfortunate, because we have only one observable example of an intelligent designer -- humans -- and we have quite a few examples of living things that have been genetically modified by humans.

The strinking thing about living things designed by humans is that they are instantly identifiable as artifacts. They could not be the result of evolution.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you both so very much for sharing your insights on this fascinating sidebar!

Truly, Monad's choice of the word "machine" backfired against his own statement that "The first scientific postulate is the objectivity of nature: nature does not have any intention or goal" in that machines are functional per se.

[hosepipe]

[ I prefer your rider/donkey analogy to this spirit/machine one. ]

The donkey metaphor makes the Donk merely a vehicle.. or an intelligent machine.. just the same.. A machine having a purpose masks "a will".. A will to accomplish a purpose.. A machine(vehicle) can have a purpose masking a will but the driver should set the course.. If the driver don't/won't set the course the vehicle careens wildly..

I believe this subject is a large question.. Is there a difference between a having a purpose and a will to do something.. Can humans operate as machines? when their purpose is/should be higher(more profound) than that?.. -OR- are they the same thing.. a purpose and a will..

Are humans born as MACHINES.. only to possibly be "re-born" as spirits?..To evolve from a mechanical existence to become something greater than that?.. I see this conversation as fundamental to understanding many things..