U.S. Must Be Cut Loose

12-28-08 | gpk9

[gpk9]

I believe your responses are moronic, so I guess we’re even. :)

[Toddsterpatriot]

That’s the whole point. Our opinions don’t matter. Every opinion expressed on this site doesn’t matter.

LOL!

[gpk9]

"Are you still breathing? Have a beer and chill."

Oh yes, I'm fine. :)

[longtermmemmory]

actually you are missing one point.

It is not just the fact that these people are going to default.

There is no legal way to collect.

The “bad credit write off” market is not the court juggernaught as before. The standing of a subsequent holder of a debt is no longer certain.

For example, banks have literally LOST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PROMISORY NOTES.

poof gone.

They are TRYING to allege state statutes to esablish the lost promisory note and offer absurd indemnifications agains a future holder of the note trying to enforce the note.

Now we have “rocket scientists” (dripping sarcasm there) who are pushing the concept of recourse mortgages on primary residences.

The forget the fact that primary residence homes enjoy HUGE legal preferences for the lenders and borrowers. If the mortgage becomes recourse just like any other investment, then lien stripping and priciple rewrite under the bankruptcy laws should also be allowed on the primary residence.

In the courts these days, nobody seems to be able to establish with certainty who is the proper plaintiff.

(footnote: this does not even begin to tough the 20% BAD INFORMATION ACCOUNTS where the collection agency bought a false account)

(footnote2: many of those bad credit card debts were bought for 7 CENTS or less, yet collection plaintiffs push the illusion they are the same as teh original company)

(footnote3: most of the debt conselor services are just glorified collection agencies in sheeps clothing. They get a percentage of every dollar paid to the other collection agencies on top the money the debtor pays. Also it does not help the credit rating the way advertised. Some credit agencies treat credit consolodator services the same as bankruptcy)

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

You have a lot to learn about this economic crisis. You will learn, probably the hard way.

[Mase]

Why even bother responding?

I know, it seems redundant telling you that you're misinformed. However, I wouldn't want others, that know as little as you do about the economy, to believe what you've written. They might start thinking the worst economy since Hoover is here and vote for hope and change.

In that case it wouldn't be a waste of time on my part. It would be an enjoyable hobby.

Not to mention being cathartic. Emotions are easy, facts are hard.

Me wasting your time? How do you figure that?

I have a hard time not responding to gross misinformation like you posted here so I suppose it isn't really wasted time after all. Never mind.

[Mase]

You have a lot to learn about this economic crisis. You will learn, probably the hard way.

Doom. It's what's for breakfast, lunch and dinner apparently.

[edge10]

From 790 Billion to 14 Trillion in less than a year? I think you better source your numbers.

Here is the one I found in mere seconds.:
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-02/2008-02-26-voa1.cfm

[expat_panama]

these doom and gloom false articles are pissing me off.

Same here, and what really gets me is how they lie about America at the same time they support it Obama's power grab.  The fact is that since the beginning of this so-called recession, our gdp has expanded by a half trillion dollars.  Some recession.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

You sound identical to house buyers during the peak of the housing bubble. They didn’t want to hear from me how they were going to lose their ass after the bubble popped. Now that their California homes are worth 1/2 what they paid for it, they aren’t laughing anymore.

Like them, you only learn the hard way.

[familyop]

"This is nonsense. Productivity is is a measure of the number of hours required to produce the necessities of life. Anything that reduces that number is a plus for society. One man with a bulldozer can do the work of hundreds of lumberjacks with axes. That frees them up do other things. You need a lot of axes or just the one bulldozer. In many ways, if the problem is clearing the forest, it really doesn't matter where you bought the bulldozer."

Alright, let's say hypothetically that bulldozers are produced in China. If we no longer have anything real (beyond money loaned from Chinese) to trade for bulldozers, we'll no longer receive them.

"Our service economy is much less vulnerable to economic collapse than the junk economy of China. We have been buying a lot of stuff not related to our basic needs. We can stop buying this stuff and be no worse off. The Chinese on the other hand will be devastated. That in itself is probably the greatest threat to America and the rest of the world."

China manufactures things and has consumers in China and a few other countries to buy them. Demand for them will drop some, if we stop buying. But it won't stop, unless their government somehow goofs in a way that stops their domestic supply and demand processes.

[Mase]

Booms and busts have been a part of our economy since its inception. We are no more doomed now than we were in the past. Doomers have also been a part of our economy since the beginning. Every now and then their dire predictions come to be realized, to a degree, and then they like to tell us just how good their crystal ball is. Their luck at finding an acorn every now and then notwithstanding, they're still nothing more than doomers who don't realize that this is just a bump in the road on our way to a bigger and better economy.

[expat_panama]

Manufacturing is real work. If you don’t don’t real work, eventually, you don’t eat

That's crazy.  It's just like what people said about farming a hundred years ago: "America needs farmers for food because we can't eat what factories make."  

Since those days we've gone from half the US population on the farm to a half of one percent, and we grow more food than ever thanks to the machines from our factories.  It's the same with the services, a factory that's got say, a better floor layout or a better cost/quality control system, can produce a hell of a lot more products than some old-time factory from the '30's.  

[familyop]

I wrote:
"Manufacturing is real work. If you don’t don’t real work, eventually, you don’t eat."

You replied, but you didn't present any argument against my comment.

Granted, my argument was simplified for most of the audience of readers. But if some of our trading partners do most of the manufacturing, they possess--physically, even if not legally--potential control of the joint economy and the means for their near-future survival.

As for Chinese production efficiency, I doubt that manufacturing there is the paragon of new technologies. And most business moguls here eschew terribly complicated robotics, men in engineering and the like. ;-)

[Mase]

To put it simply, we manufacture more today than at any other time in our history. Your original comment (post #10) suggested that we don't produce much here these days. That's absurd. If that wasn't your point then I apologize. Of course, if that's the case, then I have no idea what your point is/was.

Maybe your point was that we should practice fair trade rather than free trade. If so, then I suppose you should define the word fair because the only true form of fair trade is free trade.

[familyop]

"To put it simply, we manufacture more today than at any other time in our history."

...if we include the foreign manufacturing owned by a very small number of Americans. Thus, statistics for such arguments come from dishonest methods. We're all well aware that most of the products available to us do come from foreign countries.

George Washington, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln and many others like them were in favor of fair trade--even by way of tariffs, when necessary..

There's nothing patriotic or "free" about funding military buildups in communist nations and preferring communist slaves as employees while hating your own American neighbors.

[Mase]

...if we include the foreign manufacturing owned by a very small number of Americans.

It's true, American companies don't manufacture in other countries. They only manufacture here. Sheesh.

Thus, statistics for such arguments come from dishonest methods.

Then share your statistics breaking out what's manufactured by American companies vs. foreign companies, oh omniscient one.

George Washington, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln and many others like them were in favor of fair trade--even by way of tariffs, when necessary..

Back then they would also bleed people when they were sick. Good thing we've learned more since those times. That said, you still haven't defined fair trade other than, as a conservative, you think it's better for government bureaucrats to pick winners and losers rather than the free(r) market which is guided by billions of individual purchasing decisions. Key word = individual.

There's nothing patriotic or "free" about funding military buildups in communist nations and preferring communist slaves as employees while hating your own American neighbors

Since when do slaves earn wages? Since when should government be telling free individuals whom they can trade with outside the scope of national security? American citizens need higher prices and fewer choices to protect them? Protect them for their own good? Where does your do gooding end?

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

You would have me believe that no-one can predict economic changes better than others can? Why was I among the few of my friends and co-workers to see the oncoming collapse of the NASDAQ bubble? Why was I among the few of my friends and co-workers to see the oncoming collapse of the housing bubble? Their predictive powers were non-existent. All they could do was extrapolate a current trend to infinity. Yet I was able to see both bubbles.

Well, how about this for prediction. I SAW the stock market crash and moved all of my equity assets into cash-based assets in December 2006, saving my 401(k) plan from a 40% collapse in value. Did I just get lucky or are you saying I was a perma-bear. If I am a perma-bear, then why did I have my 401(k) savings in aggressive growth funds, small caps, and an S&P 500 Index fund right up until 2007, when I saw this stock market crash coming.

The fact is, you are dead wrong. You are dellusional if you honestly believe that nobody has the ability to predict severed downturns in the economy or in parts of the economy. I take it back. You’ll never learn. Hard or any other way. You only see what you want to see. You can’t even admit that some people CAN see a coming problem. I sheltered my money from a stock market collapse and you call it the blind finding an acorn. The same for my not buying a house at the peak of the bubble. No, you’ll never learn.

[familyop]

"It's true, American companies don't manufacture in other countries. They only manufacture here. Sheesh."

It appears that lack of credibility is getting in the way of arguments.

"Then share your statistics breaking out what's manufactured by American companies vs. foreign companies, oh omniscient one."

...two fallacies in one argument. The trade deficits are common knowledge. We know by our nearly exclusively non-American choices in products, when we buy.

"Since when do slaves earn wages?"

...throughout time, of course. But most slave masters have disregarded the good Law on how to treat slaves. I am only a candidate for work, if I am willing to show up at the "temp" office 7 am (1 1/2 hours over a high pass from here) and wait until 10 am without pay. Then I may work with foreign-language foreign nationals for $10 per hour at picking frozen, rocky clay or the like. ...average about 6 hours or so of pay in the 9-or-so-hour day (plus three for the hazardous drive). The clients don't care as to how much they pay, but they are lazy, rude, insulting, whiny creatures. It's all about the vanities of our business leaders--not so much about money. There's no legal remedy, as we are seeing current labor policy in action.

You can probably see as to how uneducated and uncivil I am by my comments (not to mention my past in metal fabrication, machining, residential construction, electronics, supervision, instruction, software development,...).

On trade, the dollar's going to fall anyway. Oil (freight fuel) will eventually rise again. We'll have to produce. The gig is up. I'm just making sure that guilty merchants, importers, foreign slave buyers and their political puppets don't succeed in turning other American groups against one another again.

It's not the fault of the poor third-worlders. It's the traitorous, organized crime bosses who are paid for cheating America and building their dictators' nations.

[edge10]

Running your numbers, every man woman and child in the USA would owe an average of $46,000 in credit card balances.

Somehow, I don’t think so.