Factcheck chickens out: takes cheap shots at patriots

The Greater Evil ^ | 12/12/08 | Polarik

[curiosity]

Because if you want proof of birthplace and date you order the birth certificate.

If you do that in Hawaii, the state sends you a short form COLB, which is just as good as the original long-form BC for this purpose. The only thing you need the long-form BC for is to prove Hawaiian ancestry, which Obama isn't claiming.

[Kevmo]

The short-form COLB, while sufficient to prove Hawaiian birth, is insufficient prove Hawaiian ancestry.
***Wrong. And it’s especially wrong when there’s evidence that the electronic document presented has been forged.

Who is Eligible to Apply for an Amendment? (Hawaiian birth certificate)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2139844/posts
Friday, November 28, 2008 7:27:18 PM · by OL Hickory · 48 replies · 1,099+ views
Dept of health State of Hawaii ^ | unknown | Dept of Health-Hawaii

EVIDENCE: Hawaii DOH trying to hide the fact that anybody could get a birth certificate.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2139830/posts
Friday, November 28, 2008 6:33:09 PM · by E. Pluribus Unum · 51 replies · 3,278+ views
State of Hawaii, Department of Health Web Page ^

ANYONE under 1 year of age could get a Hawaiian birth certificate until 1972.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2139756/posts
Friday, November 28, 2008 2:37:01 PM · by E. Pluribus Unum · 210 replies · 4,963+ views
Department of Health, State of Hawaii ^

[curiosity]

I looked at your links. All they do is discuss is amendments to the birth record, as well as how Hawaii deals with late registration of in-state births.

What does this have to do with the vailidty of the COLB as proof of Obama's birth in Hawaii?

[Kevmo]

Because someone born out of state, even out of country can slip through the loopholes in such a system, just like Obama and his sister (who says she was born in another country but has a Hawaii CoLB).

[curiosity]

Because someone born out of state, even out of country can slip through the loopholes in such a system, just like Obama and his sister (who says she was born in another country but has a Hawaii CoLB).

Does her COLB list Hawaii as her birthplace? I seriously doubt it.

[Kevmo]

I seriously doubt it.
***Then if that were the case, would you have reason to believe that Obama’s family was gaming the system with their kids? Finding the evidence of Maya’s CoLB is a matter of searching through the various FR threads. Feel free to fetch it yourself.

[Cyropaedia]

I'll save you some trouble, because I looked it up. The Dept. of Home Lands gives out homesteads to people of Hawaiian ancestry. The long-form birth certificate provides information on the ancestry of a child's parents. The short-form COLB, while sufficient to prove Hawaiian birth, is insufficient prove Hawaiian ancestry. That's the only reason why the Dept. of Home Lands requires the long form birth certificate.

But the first step in proving proper Hawaiian ancestry is proof of actual birth in Hawaii itself. And the only additional "ancestral" (if you can call it that) the the Certificate provides is the location of a parent's birth. This could be a state or even a city. It doesn't list the names of a single grandparent, or any relatives. And even with this information from a certified Certificate of Live Birth, they still want to see official, certified copies of your parents' Birth Certificates as well ( as well as your grandparents if those are available ).

Yeah, and they could also obtain a long-form birth certificate, too. However, neither the long-form nor the short-form COLB is going to list Hawaii as the birthplace for a child born out of state. I can't believe I have to point this out.

This isn't necessarily the case with some of the Certifications of Live Birth issued prior to 1972. It was one of the reasons they started changing the rules.

[curiosity]

This isn't necessarily the case with some of the Certifications of Live Birth issued prior to 1972. It was one of the reasons they started changing the rules.

I see, so according to you, prior to 1972, the state of Hawaii would deliberately lie on its official certified documents and state that someone was born in Hawaii when in fact he was not. Do I have that right?

[Cyropaedia]

I see, so according to you, prior to 1972, the state of Hawaii would deliberately lie on its official certified documents and state that someone was born in Hawaii when in fact he was not. Do I have that right?

You still don't get it. You have four different types of Birth Certificates (including the Hawaiian and the Delayed) and different rules and procedures for each. It's one big bureaucratic mess.

With the lax rules back in '61 for the Certification certificate, they basically accepted the data that was filed and didn't do an adequate job of verifying the information on the form. It was simply a matter giving people the benefit of the doubt. And what would happen if there was never a Certificate of Live Birth filed in the first place because the birth took place outside of Hawaii?

Even today, it's possible to get the Certification certificate if you provide a sworn affidavit where you claim that you were born on such and such date, on such and such city there in Hawaii and they won't go digging through the records to confirm that you don't already have an original Ceritificate of Live Birth already filed years earlier at the time of your birth.