How Not to Win Votes and Influence Conservatives

Conservatives With Attitude! New Jersey's Top Conservative Political Blog ^ | 7/9/08 | Chuck Muth

[fightinJAG]

First, I fear what a McCain victory will do to conservatism and the Republican Party. It may send a message that a non-conservative Republican can win, and that conservatives are expendable. That could cause significant longer-term damage to the country that would have to be weighed against the damage that on Obama presidency would cause.

This is a significant concern. However, I have a different take on it. In my view, if conservatives sit out this election, that will be the end of whatever influence they have in the party. It's not that they will be "expendable," but that they will be viewed as extremely unreliable.

And no team of any sort---whether in politics or sport---will knowingly depend on people who may or may not bail on them on Game Day.

Obama would propose the same things, but with Obama I would at least have some hope of the Republicans in Congress fighting him tooth and nail on it (I know...).

'Nuff said on this one, lol.

With McCain in the White House such actions would constitute mutiny against the party; far fewer of the critters would be likely to fight McCain.

Here's another take on that as well:

We, meaning conservatives, at this point in history have no other *viable* vehicle for our political voice except the Republican Party. And the ONLY CHANCE we have of influencing an administration is if it is a Republican administration.

Look at the Harriet Meyers thing. If a Rat president had nominated someone to whom conservatives objected, do you think our grassroots outrage would have done one whit of good? No. In fact, it would have been used to sell the nominee to the radical Left.

But because, and ONLY because Bush was a Republican and had the Republican Party to contend with, when the Republican grassroots got in an uproar about the nomination, he felt political pressure to withdraw it and he did. AND we---yes, WE---got John Roberts as Chief Justice of the United STates Supreme Court out of it!

If Obambi were President, forgettaboutit.

If the next four years are to be a disaster for the federal government, I would just as soon have those four years labeled with a big blue "D" rather than an "R".

Personally, I find no value to this at all---either to me personally, to the conservative movement, to the Republican Party, or, especially, to the nation.

The assignment of blame---besides often occurring in counterintuitive, even counter-reality ways---is of no matter whatsoever.

Look at what LBJ did to this country with the War on Poverty, the fall-out from which this country will NEVER be out from under. Maybe (maybe!) he gets the "blame" for the welfare state in the popular mind, but so what? How does that do ANYTHING to help us reverse the pernicious effects of LBJ's legacy?

Even electing Ronald Reagan, the gold standard, did not undo or hardly mitigate the disaster perpetrated upon this nation in little more than four years by LBJ.

Or Carter. Okay, so maybe (maybe!) he gets the "blame" for bungling Iran. That does NOTHING to mitigate the fact that today the world is a much more dangerous place---and war may even be afoot---in part because of Carter's bungling.

I just don't think the "blame game" in any way, shape or form is worth risking the country's future for. See my tagline.

Listen, I know Obama would be terrible. I'm just not *yet* convinced that a McCain presidency is better in the scheme of things. Basically, I think we're screwed, unless somehow McCain ends up not being nominated in Minneapolis (a guy can dream). I think people can take a principled view that voting for McCain is the best choice we have, but I think there's a principled argument to be made on the other side too.

I agree with you.

That said, I agree that it's "dreaming" that McCain will not get the nomination. (And, if by some chance he doesn't, the fact is that whoever replaced him would also not be acceptable to the Party of One-sters.)

The reality is that either McCain or Obambi are going to be our next president. So, my own view is that it's wise to figure out which one of those two I want to STOP (by voting for the other guy).

Here's a link I like to help focus on the difference between a Republican and a Rat administration at this point in history. I do think too many people focus on just the two candidates, as if they also will not be bringing thousands and thousands of people from their party into government.

Think about it.

But being told to "shut my stinking trap" and "get in line," or that my doubts somehow mean that I "want Obama to win" (many have said it to me and others) tends to dim my enthusiasm for making the case for my view. That's why sometimes I respond with something a bit less engaging - if people want to throw rocks at me, I feel no need to make them like me.

Yes, it gets discouraging. I know. I get treated the same way by some of the folks on "your" side. But you have a lot more of substance to say than "bite me," so I hope you'll continue to make your points. Most of the people who truly just throw rocks end up, to be honest, seeming a little crazy.

Also it might help to realize where some of this passion comes from on "my" side: we lived through watching self-described "principled conservatives" walking away from not-horrible Republicans, GHW Bush and Bob Dole, voting for Perot, and thereby making it possible for that trash from Arkansas to get in the White House. TWICE. What was up with that?

Some of those folks have actually come on FR and openly regretted what they did and worked hard to educate people about how it feels the "morning after." But others will continue to say, "It wasn't my fault" because of [fill in the blank].

You decide, but do realize that, yes, there is dismay that that lesson of history was not learned and, yes, there is anger that the same arguments made then are coming round again.

Thank you for a good discussion.

[fightinJAG]

Again, unambiguously telling people what to do.

I find such statements rude, uncalled for and stupid. But I don't see them as unambiguously telling people what to do. I just think that's also a choice on the part of the person as to how to take it.

But there's no denying that there are some on both sides who act badly.

As I said upthread, that's a shame, but it really shouldn't impact one's decision on how to vote in the presidential election.

[Admin Moderator]

Both of you knock off the personal attacks.
I am not looking forward having to go back up all the way from post #22 down and clean up your little fight and name calling.