Posted on 07/10/2008 4:54:20 PM PDT by NewJerseyJoe
Insulting me is the choice of the person speaking to me; being offended is my choice. The same goes for the other words here; someone can condescend to me, and I may just find it ridiculous and laughable, rather than offensive. I just don't have a personality that takes things, well, personally. I just tend to react with a bit of annoyance and scorn, but I tend to find such antics more (darkly) amusing than offensive.
VERY well put. All other pro and con arguments aside, this is precisely the point I have been trying to make to people for months.
If Congress -- and even state and local politicians -- were programmed to react the same no matter who occupied the White House, then yes, I'd concede that McCain is marginally "better" than Obama. But precisely because politicians are NOT automatons -- they change their allegiances, their pet causes, and yes, their principles -- one must take into consideration not just (A) what would McCain do vs. what would Obama do, but (B) what would Congress, the GOP party, governors, state politicans, et al. do with McCain in the White House vs. with Obama in the White House. And that leads to the several points you made in your posting.
With an Obama in the White House, there is a clear opposition target to fight against, "tooth and nail" as you excellently phrased it. With McCain, conservatives and conservatism would be arrayed against liberals AND the mainstream media AND the establishment GOP (although some individual GOP politicians might still retain some spine). It is a very sobering question -- this is a "DILEMMA," in its most precise definition.
Thanks for the ping. I have not been disappointed. ;)
ping!
ROTFL! Ah yes, that thread was very charming.
I see nothing improper or uncivil with JoJo's first response to you, though I shan't comment on the "bedwetter" remark. In the future, please work out your issues amongst yourself. JoJo asked me to ping if there was anything interesting, so let's keep it at that.
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the oven. I've been called all sorts of nastier names here, including a "copperhead" (conservative traitor) for refusing to fall in line and support McCain, at one point.
Just don't expect me to extol the greatness of John McCain, the Maverick Senator from Arizona who thinks he's a Ronald Reagan conservative.
The ire of Hillary's voters will dissipate by November, and I have yet to see any enthusiasm for McCain. I still remember how the Dems outvoted the Pubs by margins ranging from 2-1 to 3-2 in the primaries.
This election is Obama's to lose.
Ditto’s to all your above!
There's nothing "improper or uncivil" about calling someone a "cheapjack sellout"? Especially when the person has never even posted to you? I see.
Are you sure you want that out there representing your understanding of propriety and civility? Well, it's your reputation.
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the oven. I've been called all sorts of nastier names here, including a "copperhead" (conservative traitor) for refusing to fall in line and support McCain, at one point.
The obligatory "I've been called worse names than you" argument. Even if true, this proves exactly what? That two wrongs make a right? Where are you going with this?
It's laughable to hear "if you can't take the heat, stay out of the oven [BTW, it's kitchen, which makes quite a bit more sense and is not tacky]" from the anti-McCain crowd. This entire article---the one you apparently found so "interesting"---is about the inability of the Refusniks to take the heat and about their view that they have a right to be approached in "honeyed" tones by people with whom they disagree.
Okay.
I agree with you that the type of comments you gave as an example are not in any way, shape or form out of bounds. The only thing I would hope is that the poster making such a comment also at least attempts to explain the substance of his conclusion, not just bat personally at those with opposing views.
Probably because they're trying to tell us what to do.
I guess you and I just have to agree to disagree on this. From my point of view (I guess we'd say from the other side of this debate), over and over I have encountered people who feel that merely stating one's opinion in opposition is a "fear tactic," "telling me how to vote," etc. It's really quite astonishing to come up against this knee-jerk and apparently deep-seated self-defensiveness when all one did was state a political opinion.
Don't you think that it is also a choice to take someone's statement of political opinion as an attempt to "tell you what to do"?
Couldn't someone's legitimate and proper attempts to persuade another of a position ALWAYS be construed as that "telling what to do" if the person chose to construe it that way?
OK here you go: voting third party doesn't help Ubama get elected unless you assume that McCain's somehow entitled to my vote as some sort of default position.
If you style it that way, you can reach that conclusion.
But if you conclude that Obambi is worse for the nation than McCain, or vice versa, the real question is does voting third party do anything to help STOP the more dangerous candidate. The answer is: No.
This is NOT CHOPPED LIVER! This is our country's future we're determining here!
Don't you think that it is also a choice to take someone's statement of political opinion as an attempt to "tell you what to do"?
Couldn't someone's legitimate and proper attempts to persuade another of a position ALWAYS be construed as that "telling what to do" if the person chose to construe it that way?
Saying that voting McCain is the best thing to do isn't telling anyone what to do. Saying it's the only action consistent with conservative ideals isn't telling people what to do. "Shut your stinking trap" IS, unambiguously, telling people what to do; it's not an "interpretation." The same goes for "Get over yourself, and get with the program.” Again, unambiguously telling people what to do. It's statements like that, not simple statements of political opinion, which elicit unfriendly responses (or sometimes ridicule) from me.
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