Calling Wolves "Sheep": A respectful disagreement

Thermonuclear Thought ^ | 22 April 08 | Me

[wolfcreek]

“I think that many of these women have no reference point outside of the compound from which to judge the activities inside.”

One of the FLDS women interviewed on FOX had only been with the sect for a short time. She knew of the *outside* world.

One thing I do know and every cop will tell you: Ignorance of the law (even moral law)is no excuse.

If a *parent* doesn’t know when their children are being hurt or abused, they don’t deserve the title nor the children.

[microgood]

One thing I do know and every cop will tell you: Ignorance of the law (even moral law)is no excuse.

Just on this point alone and not related to this post, I think this is no longer true. In the old days, when there weren't that many laws, this may have been true. But now, I doubt any Federal judge even knows .001% of the Federal laws that have been enacted, and the same is true at the state level. If a judge or a cop does not know the law, and they probably know less than .001% of the laws, then how can you expect a citizen to.

If a *parent* doesn’t know when their children are being hurt or abused, they don’t deserve the title nor the children.

We do not even agree what abuse is. Many people believe that people that spank their children should have them taken away. Do you agree? And some people do not believe waterboarding is torture.

My biggest problem with this case is what will happen to the children. I believe those that advocate they be spread to the wind via foster homes are committing child abuse, maybe to a lesser degree than what is happening in the compound, but child abuse nonetheless.

[oldenuff2no]

I agree with your post. The way this unfolded demonstrated how little thought went into this RAID. Put the children and their mothers back at the compound and keep the men out until the legal matters are figured out.

The last time I checked I was not bound by any other persons MORAL LAWS. I have my own morals and they fit me just fine. Would you live by the morals of islam?????

[Mr. Silverback]

Now imagine that the local authorities have been just waiting for and anticipating any excuse to get into this compound.

Gee, just like any cops would be when they know an organization that habitually breaks the law has moved into town.

Then take it one step further and imagine how over zealous they were when a tiny unverified and unresearched crack appeared. I think that there are a lot of people wondering if somehow the local storm troopers didn't figure out a way to initiate the totally bogus and fake call them selves.

Can you cite some facts, because the FLDS has put up a website (http://captivefldschildren.org) and even they don't allege any activity I'd associate with "stormtroopers." They note that the cops showed at the gate with the proper warrants. They've got a whole page of photos that show a lot of cops and a Sheriff's office M-113, but don't look like any SWAT action I've ever seen. They do claim some kids were prevented from praying at the El Dorado Civic Center. I guess we'll see in court (criminal or a lawsuit if there are no convictions) whther that's true or not.

Why is your portrayal of law enforcement in this case so much harsher than that of the people whose home was raided and whose kids have been removed from their custody? Can you provide some data that will fill in the gap?

and has led to the court sponsored kidnap of over 400 children.

Kidnapping is a capital crime in the U.S. Shouldn't you produce some actual evidence before you accuse a number of people of a capital crime?

One thing is a for sure conclusion. the next time the cops in Texas knock on the door of one of these compounds they will be met with violence. They have made it quite clear that they residents of any communal living alternate belief system have nothing to loose by putting up a fight.

You're saying these people would start spraying bulllets around the place their kids live because they have "nothing to lose" by doing so? Dang, with friends like you, they don't need enemies!

They have learned that anyone can call from any location and tell a lie and then based on that lie without any verification or research that their children can be taken from them without any physical proof of any wrongdoing on their part.

1. So, the police can only repond to a report of a crime after they've investigated the reporter? So, if I hear a prowler tonight, the police should send a squad car by in a couple of days after they check my credit rating and three non-related references, or what?

2. Oh, so pregnant girls under the age of consent isn't physical evidence of a crime? Are you saying the cops held a seance, or what?

[Mr. Silverback]

We do not even agree what abuse is. Many people believe that people that spank their children should have them taken away.

These kids aren't in state custody because Mama spanked them.

[Mr. Silverback]

The last time I checked I was not bound by any other persons MORAL LAWS. I have my own morals and they fit me just fine. Would you live by the morals of islam?????

These people are being investigated for particularly egregious child abuse, not "loose morals" or "non-mainstream morals." If they are innocent this is tragic, but this is not a case where someone is being considered a criminal over a difference of opinion, and it's really bizarre to see someone argue as if it is.

[microgood]

These kids aren't in state custody because Mama spanked them.

I do not doubt that. But this is a case of: "in order to save you we must destroy you" and I refuse to be complicit.

[wolfcreek]

I don't believe spanking or water boarding are torture just, an end to a means. OTOH, the rape of an under aged girl whether, she's been brainwashed to believe it's her path to salvation or not, is wrong on many levels.

If we can agree the male dominated Sharia law is wrong, I think we can agree rape, especially by a family member, is equally wrong.

From the beginning of this, my thoughts have been with these children and what they must be going through. Fact of the matter, all children who are taken from their parents feel similar angst. I wish these poeple hadn't come to Texas but, now that this has happened, we'll have to see how it plays out.