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To: CottShop
The quick answer is because then love is shallow and forced- there’s just no gettign aroudn this fact- if we’re made to love Him without hte possibility of choosing not to- then there simply is no choice, and thus no free will.

All of that is true, according to *our* conception of logic. As we perceive things, humans can not be programmed to love God and at the same time exercise a meaningful choice to love God.

But if God is all-powerful, that means He isn't constrained by our conception of logic. After all, He is the author of logic and thus can fashion the rules to whatever He wants. If God wanted a universe where 2 + 2 = both 4 and 5, He could make it so. So why can't He make a universe where we automatically love Him, but at the same time our love is NOT shallow and forced?

Or is God constrained by our conception of logic, despite the fact that He is the one who designed logic itself? Is it possible for God to be constrained by His own creation?

Actually no- God’s Holiness can not achieve evil- all powerful does not mean capable of anythign imanigable- God’s Holy Nature constrains Him agaisnt doing certain things that are contrary to His nature.

I can accept the idea of a God who could not create evil. But where is the evil in what I am suggesting? I ask why God could not create a universe where evil did not exist. Surely prohibiting evil does not achieve evil...it seems like it would be the exact opposite. So why didn't God just prohibit evil in the first place, and use some other means to achieve all of His objectives that did not require the existence of evil?

39 posted on 04/07/2008 7:09:52 PM PDT by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: timm22

[[I ask why God could not create a universe where evil did not exist.]]

I must have misinderstood what you meant- God could have- and we’d all be mindless puppets obeying because we had no other choice but to obey.

[[Surely prohibiting evil does not achieve evil]]

Nope- it wouldn’t

[[So why didn’t God just prohibit evil in the first place, and use some other means to achieve all of His objectives that did not require the existence of evil?]]

I don’t think there really is any other way logically to produce TRUE love- in order for there to be True love, there must be the ability to choose. I don’t beleive there is any other way to produce that- you answered your own question in your response [[All of that is true, according to *our* conception of logic. As we perceive things, humans can not be programmed to love God and at the same time exercise a meaningful choice to love God.]] I see the direction you are attempting to go logically, after your statement, but I’m not sure it could work.

[[After all, He is the author of logic and thus can fashion the rules to whatever He wants. If God wanted a universe where 2 + 2 = both 4 and 5,]]

That would be a deceit- 2+2 can’t equal both without violating a natural law. If there are no laws, then everyhtign then becomes subjective, and htere are no objective answers, no absolutes by which to judge by.

[[Or is God constrained by our conception of logic, despite the fact that He is the one who designed logic itself?]]

That’s I beleive backwards- God isn’t constrained by our logic, He is only constrained by the logics He laid down and which we dimly understand. Speaking logically, the only logically possible solution was to create a logical world cosntrained by laws whereby everythign can be measured. No laws, no objective absolutes, no true love.

[[Is it possible for God to be constrained by His own creation?]]

Yes, God is constrained infact constrained by some of His characteristics and the created world. He was even cosntrained before the world was created.


44 posted on 04/07/2008 7:28:06 PM PDT by CottShop
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