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To: timm22
Okay, so you are saying this world is not as ideal as Heaven, and the reason our world is worse is because of the mistakes of Adam and Eve. Am I correct?

No, Eden was ideal, it was the world God created. The world fell because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of Knowledge. They didn't so much make a "mistake", as disobey God. They didn't have faith (to believe without seeing) or love (unconditional trust). That's my take on it.

If so, then I must ask: if God is all good, and all powerful, why did he structure things so that Adam and Eve *could* make a mistake? Why didn't God make the world so that Adam and Eve could have free will, but at the same time make them unable to stain humanity with their mistakes? That could not have been very difficult for an all-powerful being.

Like I said, you can't have free will yet be unable to make mistakes. Without free will, we really wouldn't be human would we?

An all-powerful God could have achieved those objectives without any risk of evil at all. Again, by definition God can do anything. So why did He even give us the slightest chance to mess things up, if He could have reached his desired outcome without the possibility of error?

Well, first of all you are assuming you know what God's objective is. Secondly, you keep changing what we are. Maybe look at it from the other direction: what if he did as you suggest, and created perfect beings with no free will, no choices, no mistakes. What would we be?
33 posted on 04/07/2008 6:47:13 PM PDT by visualops (artlife.us nature wallpapers)
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To: visualops
...Like I said, you can't have free will yet be unable to make mistakes. Without free will, we really wouldn't be human would we?...

Maybe look at it from the other direction: what if he did as you suggest, and created perfect beings with no free will, no choices, no mistakes. What would we be?

Without free will, we would be whatever God wanted us to be, with whatever characteristics He wanted us to have.

*My* limited brain understands how a human can not have free will, and at the same time be unable to make "wrong" choices. But that's because I live within this universe which is governed by logic.

God does not exist in our universe, however. As an all-powerful creator, I do not see how He could be constrained by the logic of this universe. An all-powerful being could achieve contradictory aims, could it not? So why can't God make beings who enjoy all the benefits of free will without any of the costs?

Is God constrained by the logic which governs our universe, or by some other force higher than Himself?

42 posted on 04/07/2008 7:19:40 PM PDT by timm22 (Think critically)
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