Posted on 02/06/2008 6:19:32 PM PST by klimeckg
They will, however, forbid a Mormon from attending the baptism of a grandchild in a Catholic Church - real Christian of them
The Ploys of Revisionists
When revisionists attempt to concoct support for their usually unpopular viewpoint, they often vilify fgures — past or present — who embrace the position they reject. This tactic was evident in 1995’s onslaught of media articles claiming that America’s success was due to its long-standing tradition of secularism.
For example, Steven Morris’s Los Angeles Times article, “America’s Unchristian Beginnings” [3] (picked up by wire services and reprinted in scores of newspapers across the nation), was loaded with deliberate falsehoods to “prove” America’s Founders were purely secular. For instance, concerning John Adams, Morris claimed:
Late in life, he wrote, “Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it!!!’ ”
The Rest of the Story
This statement appears in Adams’s letter to Thomas Jefferson on April 19, 1817, in which Adams recounted a conversation between Joseph Cleverly and Lemuel Bryant — a schoolmaster and a minister he had known. Disgusted by the petty religious bickering displayed by those two, Adams declared to Jefferson:
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!” But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not ft to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell. [4]
In reality, revisionists like Steven Morris (and especially those from the Society of Separationists or the American Atheist Society) deliberately reverse Adams’s position. Not only did Adams declare that it would be “fanatical” to desire a world without religion (and that such a world would be “hell”), but on May 5, 1817, Jefferson wrote back to Adams and said that he agreed!
What makes revisionism so effective is that few citizens actually take time to confrm revisionists’ claims or to proclaim to the public the real facts.
Speaking for Themselves
Since the goal of Morris and others like him is to “prove” that people of faith have no precedent for being involved in politics, he characterizes the Founders’ general religious beliefs with the same false summary that most revisionists — both in academia and media — often proclaim:
The early presidents and patriots were generally deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the relevance of the Bible.
Yet, the Founders’ own declarations in their last wills and testaments [5] disprove those assertions and speak loud and clear that the great majority of our Founders were indeed believers in Jesus Christ. For example:
First of all, I . . . rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins. Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration
To my Creator I resign myself, humbly confding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity. John Dickinson, Signer of the Constitution
I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ. Gabriel Duvall, U.S. Supreme Court Justice; selected as delegate to Constitutional Convention
This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed. Patrick Henry
I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by his beloved Son. . . . Blessed be his holy name. John Jay, Original Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court
I am constrained to express my adoration of . . . the Author of my existence . . . [for] His forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state. Robert Treat Paine, Signer of the Declaration
I think it proper here not only to subscribe to . . . doctrines of the Christian religion . . . but also, in the bowels of a father’s affection, to exhort and charge them [my children] that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness. Richard Stockton, Signer of the Declaration
These wills represent only a few examples from many with the identical tone. Furthermore, the personal writings of numerous other Founders contain equally strong declarations. Notice:
My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God. [6] John Quincy Adams
Now to the triune God, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, be ascribed all honor and dominion, forevermore p; Amen.[7] Gunning Bedford, Signer of the Constitution
You have been instructed from your childhood in the knowledge of your lost state by nature — the absolute necessity of a change of heart, and an entire renovation of soul to the image of Jesus Christ p; of salvation thro’ His meritorious righteousness only — and the indispensable necessity of personal holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. [8] Elias Boudinot, Revolutionary Officer and President of the Continental Congress (to his daughter)
You do well to learn . . . above all the religion of Jesus Christ. [9] George Washington
[D]on’t forget to be a Christian. I have said much to you on this head and I hope an indelible impression is made. [10] Jacob Broom, Signer of the Constitution (to his son)
On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts. [11] Charles Carroll, Signer of the Declaration
I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. [12] Thomas Jefferson
I think the Christian religion is a Divine institution; and I pray to God that I may never forget the precepts of His religion or suffer the appearance of an inconsistency in my principles and practice. [13] James Iredell, U.S. Supreme Court Justice under President George Washington
My only hope of salvation is in the infnite, transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly! [14] Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration
I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance, equal in power and glory. That the Scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him. [15] Roger Sherman, Signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution
I shall now entreat . . . you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for “there is no salvation in any other” [Acts 4:12]. . . . [I]f you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish. [16] John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration
There are many other examples.
Summary
The evidence is clear; the revisionists are wrong. Although there was some anti-organized-religion sentiment among the Founders (e.g., Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Charles Lee, Henry Dearborn), those with such views were a small minority and, in fact, often were strongly criticized by others for those beliefs.
It is time that Christians retake the academic high ground. When historically false editorials or letters-to-the-editor are written, or when call-in programs make reckless charges, we need to stand up and confront those errors. This will provide an opportunity for those who are undecided on the issue of public religious expressions to formulate their opinions from accurate information rather than from revisionist trash. [David Barton, WallBuilders.com]
Some of the Founders were animists.
not this diest nonsense again
I agree. I think I would believe in an activist God had I survived Brooklyn as G. Washington and our troops did.
Of course, the degree of interest in whether a deistic view is reflected in the Constitution is related to the number of Americans who, actually, concern themselves with what our Founding Fathers intended. In the political world (as opposed to people who just don’t care),this is the “living-breathing” constitution crowd; this crowd tends to infect the politic with temporally expedient views clearly threating to the Republic.
Obviously, interpretations of the Constitution will change as judges and the times change, but the change to our basic law must be no greater than necessary to preserve its vitality.
That is why the gun case would be funny if it were not serious. Imagine the lawyer’s difficulty in convincing any alert individual that United States citizens don’t enjoy rights that are written with utter clarity in the Constitution, but they do have rights located in a lower left corner of an invisible penumbra of rights as real as ghosts.
True! you get one little star.
There was a lot of prejudice in the south, cuz “Romney wurz a Mor-man”. I heard it, even heard a few preachers rail against him, honestly , would a Mor-man do more damage than Whatever in the Heck, McCain/ Hillary / Obama Hussein is?
"In addition, with no more than five exceptions (and perhaps no more than three) they (the Framers) were orthodox members of one of the established Christian communions, 29 Anglicans, 16-18 Calvinists, two Methodists, two Lutherans, two Catholics, one lapsed Quaker and sometime Anglican, and one open Deist, Benjamin Franklin, who attended every kind of Christian worship, called for open prayer, and contributed to all denominations."
Then why have this website, if all we get are posts from arrogant @#%^&YYTY!
They worshiped Rock- Paper- Scissors? Or they made cartoons?
LOL, good question?
Yeah, pretty much.
That and he seems too slick and floppy.
Hey longtermmemmory! why bother to respond?
“Mormonism is not responsible for Romney’s problems.”
Romney has done himself a disservice via many of the positions that he held during his run against Ted Kennedy and his tenure as the governor of Massachuesetts. He has adequately renounced his previous positions. I for one believe that he is sincere.
I heard McCain backtrack on amnesty and the need for a fence and I do not believe that he is being honest. I also don’t believe that he will make the fence a priority.
Religious bigots are the source of many of Mitt’s troubles ~ beginning with Mike Huckabee.
Vote your conscience for who the best leader and CIC will be. Who has command of issues? Principaled? Committed? Understands who our enemies are? Will rise to the occasion under pressure? Can get people to follow their lead?
These are the type of issues we need to be scrutinizing when choosing a President. Not all the micro, manufactured, sub-issues that the drive-bys have told us are most important for the last 30 years.
When we look at a Ronald Reagan under that filter, we see why he was a great leader and a great President. If we allow today's filter to be used, we would hear about Ronald Reagan in this way:
-Former Democrat!
-Flip flopped on abortion!
-Raised taxes!
-Weak on immigration!
-Weak against terrorists! (withdrew from Lebanon)
We do agree that this year, conservatives have the most lame field of candidates in my years since I turned voting age. It's not an easy choice.
I'm also a born again Christian, but I'm not choosing a pastor. I also know better at this point in my walk that there are various stages of the heart that we all go thru in our walk. There are many deceiptful believers, unfortunately, so that issue alone does not qualify *or* disqualify anyone in my mind.
My vote was cast for Romney in GA yesterday, primarily as a 'stop McCain' maneuver. I'm not proud of that. But it's the reality of the decision I made.
As important as it is, God is sovereign, and my faith and trust is in Him. That is what gives me great comfort in this process.
NOw why would they disagree with such an untruth? Is it because of how they believe in Jesus - for example, from their web site at
lds.org
from their creed:
"We bear testimony...that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son. "
Tell you what I have never heard from a Mormon. I have NEVER heard them claim that Catholics or Baptists or any other church that professed to be Christians, were not.
Tell you what else. I think God will decide who are and who are not Christian - and I think there will many who profess to be who will one day be shocked to hear: "...I never knew you."
Maybe it's best to leave the judgment up to The Father - for one's own safety?
Alan Keyes stood up against Bill Clinton while he was in office. I expect he’d stand up against the Democrats just fine now too. My heartfelt answer to “What to do?” is to talk with those you encounter about Alan Keyes, and urge them to vote for him too.
Agreed.
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