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Never-before-revealed images from a Haditha surveillance video [Part one: The ambush site]
Defend Our Marines ^
| September 15, 2007
| Nathaniel R. Helms
Posted on 09/16/2007 4:13:36 AM PDT by RedRover
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To: Girlene
Nat hasn't worked out the how to hit the "Post Reply" button yet. So here's what he said via e-mail...
I think she is right. not #1. Needs to be corrected. Will take care of it in the AM...
Wuterich was in #3 facing southwest... the Iraqis would have been masked by their vehicle until they were compelled to move away... what compelled them - how about M-16 rounds... very compelling stuff, which brings up an interesting point as well. Given the body placement the line of fire suggests Dela Cruz's fire drove the Iraqi males toward the sand pile... whether they were running to hide or escape is doesn't mater except to them - they were inside the 100-meter security zone... the ROE would say to eliminate the threat in any instance... He said Wutericch fired so he fired because he perceived a threat when Wuterich opened up... come on... he was a sergeant... if he didn't know what a threat was after two tours.... Wuterich says that the car was inside their SOP security zone. In court testimony Dela Cruz showed with a rubber rifle how he fired over the white car at targets pictures very similar to pop ups on a hundred - meter KD range. Any of the readers who fired for quals back in the 60s and 70s know exactly what I mean... head and shoulder shots... they hunker down and beat feet. Did anybody do damage assessment on the white car - how many bullets holes?
As far as I know, no one knows what became of the white car after that morning. It was an ambush site, not a crime scene.
41
posted on
09/16/2007 7:27:44 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.com)
To: RedRover
It is insane to let a vehicle arriving in the middle of an attack to assume a flanking position on your unit.
42
posted on
09/17/2007 1:14:18 AM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
To: Girlene


I hate to say this because people will think I'm crazy but to figure out what is where given the definition of Google earth I take off my glasses so that things are blurred, that way I see things as shapes and match the shapes.
43
posted on
09/17/2007 3:58:22 AM PDT
by
usmcobra
(I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
To: usmcobra
Okay. I was basing my assessment on what you call the exposed pipes being the end of the mound of dirt. I’ll buy into your placement. Makes sense to me. Since I don’t wear glasses, I tried squinting. Didn’t have the same effect. :-)
44
posted on
09/17/2007 5:49:29 AM PDT
by
Girlene
To: RedRover
Thanks, Red. The only picture we’ve seen of the white car is the one from Washington Post. It is taken from the rear and only shows the passenger side with the car doors open. There is very little exposed car surface to see if there are any bullet holes. Wonder if NCIS had any more views of the taxi.
45
posted on
09/17/2007 6:08:41 AM PDT
by
Girlene
To: Girlene
The round thingee helps too.
46
posted on
09/17/2007 6:09:14 AM PDT
by
usmcobra
(I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
To: usmcobra; Girlene
Just for fun, I did an overlay of the two pictures. They were not taken from exactly the same angle so they wouldn't be an exact match in any case.
I lined up the IED crater with the icon marking the spot where the Marines were attacked...

I did notice that round black thingee too. It matches up pretty well.
47
posted on
09/17/2007 6:17:11 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.com)
To: Girlene
I don't recall any testimony regarding an examination of the white car. SSgt Laughner and other Marines testified to examining houses 1, 2, and 4 on the same day.
Do you remember anything at the hearings about anyone examining the white car? If photos weren't taken at the time, I don't know what NCIS (or the lawyers) could have.
48
posted on
09/17/2007 6:22:15 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.com)
To: RedRover
I’d think any testimony about the white car would have occurred during SSgt. Wuterich’s hearing. All I ever heard is what the reporters printed about Dela Cruz’s testimony. I don’t remember reading anything about the fall of the bodies, supposed angles of the shots, anything. As Nat indicated, during the initial assessment, this was not considered a crime scene. I was surprised when more did not come out about this part of the action. Nat’s indication of Dela Cruz’s demonstration with a rubber rifle is more than was reported in the press. And, then, there’s always Cpl. Salinas effect on the 5 Iraqis. Since he didn’t testify, we don’t know anything about that aspect.
49
posted on
09/17/2007 9:25:03 AM PDT
by
Girlene
To: RedRover
Amazing to see the pics.
Thank you.
50
posted on
09/17/2007 9:31:04 AM PDT
by
Velveeta
To: Velveeta
You’re very welcome. All we’ve wanted is a full disclosure of the facts. We’ll get there, bit by bit.
51
posted on
09/17/2007 9:41:21 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.com)
To: Girlene
I came to understand that SSgt Justin Laughner took that photo in the Post. (But I can’t remember how I came to believe that.) I don’t know how many more photos exist, but there must be more. No one takes just one picture.
52
posted on
09/17/2007 9:47:56 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.com)
To: Girlene; lilycicero
Lily has an admirer on the defense team. Maybe she can get some details out of him.
53
posted on
09/17/2007 9:51:49 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(Let's get some pillow talk.)
To: RedRover
What part of ‘shhhh it’s a secret’ didn’t you understand?
Behave now. The 2 worlds sometimes collide.
54
posted on
09/17/2007 9:57:01 AM PDT
by
lilycicero
(If you were an Officer you would be the brass ass UU)
To: lilycicero
I deny the whole thing. Wiesenheimer must’ve hijacked my log-in. E-mail to you. Observe “code cockatoo” procedures.
55
posted on
09/17/2007 10:14:35 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.com)
To: RedRover; lilycicero
Remember the allegation during Tatum's hearing that the armory guy thought one AK-47 was picked up from the taxi. The prosecution hushed him up because it wasn't relevant to their case against Tatum. Did anything come of this during SSgt. Wuterich's hearing?
Also, remember this from North County Times prior to the hearing?
Wuterich hearing to address Haditha issues
....The killing of the five men who emerged from the car is expected to be a highly contested part of the case....
Wuterich's attorneys are expected to argue that Dela Cruz fired first at those men. They point to a forensic reconstruction by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which used aerial surveillance tapes to reconstruct what happened near the car.
A government investigator is expected to testify that the Iraqis were running away, leading Wuterich to believe they were insurgents involved in the attack. Attorneys for Wuterich say the tapes show Dela Cruz is the more likely killer based on his position and Wuterich's in relation to the slain men.
"The forensic evidence rules out to a scientific certainty Dela Cruz's version of events," attorney Puckett said....
Whatever happened to that part? In looking at the three vehicles in post #28, does the vehicle closest to the taxi appear it's pointed east and has an open back? It does to me, but it could just be the shadows. I think there may have been a couple of open backed vehicles, but I don't think I've ever read who was assigned to what vehicle. I wonder if that was established during the hearing?
Lily, I have no idea what Red is talking about.
56
posted on
09/17/2007 10:48:30 AM PDT
by
Girlene
(Really!)
To: Girlene
While we wait (probably a day) for an answer let me school you on my theory. (For entertainment only)
I think there may have been a couple of open backed vehicles
I think those were hoopties abandoned at the drive in movie. "Closed For the Winter" was playing.
57
posted on
09/17/2007 1:03:00 PM PDT
by
lilycicero
(NACHOS.)
To: Girlene
I see. And raise you one. When you look at this in relation to those two photos in #28 it's another good perspective.

Did you notice the back window of the 'taxi' is shattered....
58
posted on
09/17/2007 7:35:43 PM PDT
by
freema
To: lilycicero
"Closed For the Winter" was playing.
That's my favorite movie!
59
posted on
09/18/2007 9:22:40 AM PDT
by
Girlene
To: freema
Thanks, freema. You must have better eyes than I do. I can’t tell if the back window is broken. Anyone else?
60
posted on
09/18/2007 9:23:58 AM PDT
by
Girlene
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