Posted on 07/28/2007 9:00:10 AM PDT by pissant
Continuing to push Fred into the race doesn't achive that goal either, as Fred's entry will just further split the already fractured, vast anti-Rudy right-of-center Republican voters, further increasing Rudy's chance of getting the GOP nomination. Fred's votes will all come from other Republicans who could "stop" Rudy, rather than drain votes from Rudy himself.
The Fredheads wanted to "Draft" Fred because they just couldn't bring themselves to support of any of NINE alternatives to Rudy, nobody was good enough for them. They tried to run anyone who would tell them what they wanted to hear, including Mark Sanford, Haley Baubour, and Sonny Perdue. Nobody would take the bait. Finally they found the perfect celebrity candidate: Fred Thompson.
Now that we've actually had a chance to look at Fred's "record" in detail, it turns out he has many of the same problems that they whined about made the "main" opposition to Rudy unacceptable. The seemingly perfect "drafted" candidate supported McCain-Feingold, was weak on immigration (McCain), is flip-flopping whenever his more liberal 1994 era views are uncovered (Ronmney), has an undisgushed record in the Senate (Brownback), looks old and tired on TV (Tommy, McCain), and is not winning over any swing voters (Tancredo, Hunter). And the responce from the Fredheads is "nobody's perfect". EXACTLY.
So MAYBE you should have built up ONE of the NINE candidates ALREADY in the race instead of TRYING to start from scratch in fundraising and volunteers, then realizing the oh-so-perfect "savior" you've selected has just as many "flaws" as the current field you shun and ignore so much.
Fred vs. Rudy, one-on-one, would certainly be a reason why we'd all have to stop bashing Fred and "get behind" the one conservative who can take Rudy out.
But since they're already nine other people running, the Fredheads have no right to shove them out of the way to annoint someone they (falsely) perceive is more conservative and more electable based on no verifible evidence.
The Draft Fred crowd, which insisted on having a candidate taylor-made to do whatever they want, has just further diluted the conservative base and made it EASIER for Rudy to win the GOP nomination.
>>>>>Now that we've actually had a chance to look at Fred's "record" in detail, it turns out he has many of the same problems that they whined about made the "main" opposition to Rudy unacceptable.
That is ridiculous. You know very well that Giuliani is a full fledged, lifelong liberal. Thompson`s record in the Senate shows he voted conservative on most issues. Especially on national defense, tax cuts, abortion and federalism. In fact, FredT was on the losing side on many 99-1 votes in the Senate, where he was the only one voting for and favoring federalism. Remember, federalism is what most of the Founders envisioned for our representative Republic. Strong states rights and a more limited federal bureaucracy. Also, the ACU gave FerdT a lifetime 86 rating. If they rated Giuliani he'd probably get about what Joe Lieberman receives annually, a 17 lifetime rating.
On the overall immigration issue FredT had a mixed record while in the Senate, but he does oppose amnesty and in my opinion that is the right position. His support for the passage of McCain-Feingold is well noted. Since its not working the way he expected it would, Thompson has come out and said it should be scraped, with no limits on donations but with full public disclosure reported on the internet.
Right now, I don't support anyone. Bottom line. While Thompson has the conservative credentials required to run, he has to prove to conservatives that he's the real deal and will be a strong candidate who can run a tough national campaign and beat any Democrat in the 20008 general election.
In my opinion, if Fred does not participate in that he will see a great decline in his support. Or at a minimum, a halt to new support.
Although I think that the campaigns all started way to early, that horse is already out of the barn. If he can not, or will not debate (even if it is just because of a technicality that he is not an official candidate) I cannot imagine him winning over very many new fans. You and I both know that the MSM is looking for each and every angle to cut down our front runners. They will leap at the fact that there is obviously and empty podium with Freds name on it.
Only die hards pay attention to this stuff in the summer, yet we know that most people do at least pay attention to headlines, and I can see them already. "GOP debate (minus Fred Thompson) tonight" ... "The real reason behind Freds absence at the debate"...."Once again, Fred skips debate"...."What is Fred afraid of, why wont he debate".... etc. etc.
Like it or not, the MSM does still control the sound bites, and what the average American thinks they know. Fred should decide if he wants his campaign (or non - campaign) to define him, or if he wants newspaper headlines to do it.
>> Interesting
It is given the source. We will see more concern oversees regarding the fear of a socialistic amerika.
Yes, all the way back to 1988.
I like pissant but one can be too optimistic. on another post it was stated that Hunter has gone from 1% to 0%.
Yes, I think you’re right. Hunter’s campaign is going nowhere. So where are all of those campaign funds going when he pulls out? Straight to a race in California—Duncan’s? Or Duncan Duane’s?
The Daily Pissant Trash Fred Thread.....why bother even reading them?
Most likely Duncan Duane’s, which is a perfectly legal use of Hunter’s PAC money. Quite brilliant, actually.
Run a longshot bid for the White House, all the while knowing his son’s congressional race in San Diego can be the ultimate beneficiary.
>>> That is ridiculous. You know very well that Giuliani is a full fledged, lifelong liberal. Thompson`s record in the Senate shows he voted conservative on most issues. Especially on national defense, tax cuts, abortion and federalism. In fact, FredT was on the losing side on many 99-1 votes in the Senate, where he was the only one voting for and favoring federalism. Remember, federalism is what most of the Founders envisioned for our representative Republic. Strong states rights and a more limited federal bureaucracy. Also, the ACU gave FerdT a lifetime 86 rating. If they rated Giuliani he'd probably get about what Joe Lieberman receives annually, a 17 lifetime rating. <<
What are you talking about??
READ my post. I said Fred has many of the same problems of Rudy main OPPOSITION has (e.g. that means McCain & Romney's problems).
I never said Fred has the same problems that Rudy HIMSELF has (their records are quite different, and the only problem I think Rudy & Fred share is getting bashed over the new wives)
I know alot of freepers live in a delusional fantasy world where McCain is a evil communist traitor and Fred is a wholesome pure conservative, but in reality Fred's lifetime conservative rating is 86% and McCain's is 82%. So the freepers who keep touting Fred's "conservative ratings" on guns, abortion, taxes, spending, defense, etc., and talking how nobody else who is that "conservative" can beat Rudy might want to look at reality and realize the eeeeeeeevil "RINO traitor" John McCain is not much different from their hero on "the issues"
As for Romney, again, the Fredheads "recruited" Fred into the race because they whined incessantly that Romney is a flip-flopper and can't be trusted on conservative issues with his sudden 11th hour conversions. And what do we get from Fred? The same thing. Fred is suddenly for cracking down on employers who hire illegal aliens, though his "record" for the past 12 years never showed any support for that in the past. Fred is suddenly having second thoughts on McCain-Feingold, though he was instrumental in getting it passed when he was actually in office.
Fred was recruited into this race because the Fredheads couldn't stomach McCain or Romney, the two candidates polling best against Giuliani. And now that they got their miricle man, it turns out he has just as many weak points as the "unacceptable" McCain & Romney have. There is no point in adding Fred to this race, I don't see what he brings to the table other than his celebrity Hollywood credentials.
I have said many times I will happily vote for Fred over the Hilderbeast if he's nominated, and I would vote for Fred over Rudy if he was the only alternative... but I've said the same about McCain & Romney. McCain is far from my perfect candidate but he looks like Ronald Reagan next to the NYC mayor.
There is no point for Fred's 11th hour entry into this race, other than to diulute conservatives votes further.
And that's another thing. There's constant whining from the Fredheads here when their guy gets attacked, but the Fredheads seem to have free reign to bash ALL the other Republicans running for President, in the most crude ways possible.
You say JimRob has declared Rudy is the enemy and goal is to beat Rudy, but one of the people who could hypothetically do that is McCain, yet somehow the Fredheads have no problem tearing down on every thread possible and were utterly overjoyed when McCain's campaign took a nose dive recently. To listen to some Fredheads here, McCain is the most treasonous liberal RINO on the planet. How does that contribute to the stated goal to "stop Rudy"? Seems to me they're only interesting in taking out Rudy's high profile opponents to clear the field for Fred.
My goal is "anyone but Rudy", THEIR goal is "NOBODY but Fred". You don't see me vowing to "vote for the Democrat" if my guy doesn't win the primary, you hear that from Fredheads threating McCain supporters, Ron Paul supporters, etc. with Hillary. I just heard a Fredhead say that the other day, that if THEIR guy doesn't win the primary we should all vote Democrat in November. That kind of garbage doesn't belong on FR.
Actually, the Fredheads are allowed greatest leincy on this forum to post garbage bashing fellow conservative Republicans than anyone else here. Lindsey Graham was instrumetal in trying to pass Shamnesty, so even though Graham has a 91% conservative rating, they're allowed to call him homosexual all day, claim Hillary has his FBI files, and accuse him of being McCain's gay lover and future running mate.
Fred was instrumental in helping Diane Feingold draft a "compromise" to pass McCain-Feingold, but imagine if I had stooped to the level of Fredheads and started calling Fred an abortionist, said he gives Feinstein oral sex, and passed the bill so he could whore himself out to McCain. The Fredheads would hit the abuse button on me so fast I'd get banned in 10 minutes.
Yet THEY are allowed to post the same kind of gutter-level attacks on 90% conservative politicians EVERY DAY because they are mad about those people over ONE bill.
You want to complain about freepers who spend all day tearing down other conservatives and insisting only their guy is perfect, take it up with the Fredheads. Many of their posts are worse than any of us.
Wow....you need Kleenex.
I BEEEEEELEEEEVE the Great Pumpkin will arise someday!
You're right my MISTAKE. Now calm down.
>>>>>There is no point for Fred's 11th hour entry into this race, other than to diulute conservatives votes further.
What 11th hour entry?! Its still July! The dog days of August are ahead of us. FredT isn't the enemy of conservatism. FredT is one of us... a conservative. And he's knocked off a significant portion of Giuliani's support. The question is, can FredT be a good enough candidate and be tough enough on the campaign trail to win the nomination. We shall see.
From what I've read on FR over the last 6-8 weeks, there is a growing level of rhetorical attacks, mostly coming from Hunter's supporters and being aimed directly at FredT. Mostly cheap shots that involve rumor, gossip and innuendo based on liberal media writings. IOW, pure BS!
Legitimate challenges to FredT`s conservatism are one thing. Accusations that have no merit is something entirely different. Many of these recent attacks are of a personal nature made against FredT and include some juvenile attacks aimed at his wife. Uncalled for.
>>>>>You say JimRob has declared Rudy is the enemy and goal is to beat Rudy ...
I say it, cause its true. JimRob doesn't care for John Mccain or Mitt Romney either. Frankly, I don't care for McCain or Romney myself. Thats why I've been waiting for someone like Tancredo or Hunter blast out of the second tier of candidates and start making a difference. Look like thats not meant to be.
As for the rest of your crazed rant, all I can say is phooey!
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