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Abortion - Don't just hold Rudy and Mitt accountable, remember Fred
Spark it Up ^ | June 24, 2007

Posted on 06/24/2007 7:54:42 AM PDT by rob21

We are holding Rudy and Mitt to the fire about their past on abortion. Lets not forget Fred Thompson.

Abortions should be legal in all circumstances as long as the procedure is completed within the first trimester of the pregnancy. Link

A very strong statement from Fred Thompson when he was running for congress.


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; duncanhunter; elections; fredonabortion; fredthompson; rino; romney; rudygiuliani; troll; zot
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To: Cicero
He also is implicated in several actions while he was governor that furthered abortion.

You know this is false, but you keep spreading the same lie over and over again forcing me to post the TRUTH (again):

1)Romney took the pro-life position on every abortion-related issue he faced while governor.

2)He vetoed an emergency contraception bill and offered a compelling case for life in the process.

3)He fought efforts to advance embryonic stem cell research in Massachusetts, despite overwhelming opposition.

4)He pledged to veto any effort to expand access to RU-486, the abortion pill.

5)He has faced constant ridicule from pro-abortion organizations for refusing to give in to their demands.

6)He actively promoted abstinence education programs in Massachusetts’ schools. The abstinence movement and the pro-life movement work hand-in-hand to reduce the number of teen pregnancies and to promote true sexual health to America’s youth. http://www.americansformitt.com/prolife_perspective.html

______________________

An op-ed written by Romney and published in the Boston Globe in July, 2005, titled "Why I vetoed contraception bill" addresses Roe v. Wade and states rights:

"I understand that my views on laws governing abortion set me in the minority in our Commonwealth. I am prolife. I believe that abortion is the wrong choice..... I wish the people of America agreed, and that the laws of our nation could reflect that view. But while the nation remains so divided over abortion, I believe that the states, through the democratic process, should determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate."

“Transforming the courts” is a pre-requisite to winning the pro-life position. Both Thompson and Romney agree on that. And, unless a Republican is picking the judges that’s not going to happen.

BOTH Thompson and Romney did everything to limit the expansion of abortion while in office in spite of their prior statements.

321 posted on 06/25/2007 9:59:03 AM PDT by redgirlinabluestate (MittRocks.blogspot.com)
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To: DieselHoplite

Notice that I did specify that it wasn’t a label for all Mitt Romney supporters. Just people who troll and post nasty things on Fred Thompson threads. You know, like you do.


322 posted on 06/25/2007 9:59:52 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm (<---- is vacationing from gnats)
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To: DieselHoplite

They don’t seem to say WHY he is rated like that.

I donate to a number of pro-life organizations, and have done so ever since the beginning. I ceased donating to NLR many years ago, however, because they showed poor judgment on several issues.

So I don’t credit this rating without seeing the evidence in support of it.

Did Fred Thompson say that he opposed the RTL Constitutional amendment way back when, for instance? Smart pro-lifers did, too, because it had zero chance of passage at the time it was being pushed. Because of the machinations of certain people, energy was put behind the amendment instead of the right to life BILL, which as a result failed by one vote.

I notice that Fred has 100% rating from the other pro-life organizations mentioned.


323 posted on 06/25/2007 10:03:55 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
In short, Romney is better than Giuliani, and Thompson is better than Romney

While Thompson and Romney are both better than Giuliani, reasonable people can conclude that Romney is actually better than Thompson because:

they have identical positions on abortion,

but Romney is stronger on immigration and

Romney agrees with the GOP platform on tort reform while Fred does not and

Romney has superior executive experience, proven organizational skills, a proven record of fiscal conservatism, and he provides a REAL change in Washington with no past alliances with McCain and his Gang.

Fred Thompson on John McCain

FDT on immigration

Reasonable conservative minds can differ. Like you said, nobody is perfect and nobody is holier than thou around here.

324 posted on 06/25/2007 10:07:32 AM PDT by redgirlinabluestate (RomneyRevolution4REAL change in DC)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
they have identical positions on abortion,

Other than the fact that Romney tried to run to the left of Ted Kennedy on abortion back in 1994, and ran on a pro-choice platform in 2002 as well.

but Romney is stronger on immigration

As of last week.

Romney agrees with the GOP platform on tort reform while Fred does not

Yep, Romney is in favor of limited government unless it limits what Romney wants government to do. Witness Romneycare.

325 posted on 06/25/2007 10:09:16 AM PDT by dirtboy (Impeach Chertoff and Gonzales. We can't wait until 2009 for them to be gone.)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
BOTH Thompson and Romney did everything to limit the expansion of abortion while in office in spite of their prior statements.

Except for the health care bill that Romney signed in 2006 that provided government funding for abortion.

Other than that...

326 posted on 06/25/2007 10:11:06 AM PDT by dirtboy (Impeach Chertoff and Gonzales. We can't wait until 2009 for them to be gone.)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

I hardly ever post on Fred Thompson threads. And when I do I refrain from expressing my personal views and only post facts backed by solid evidence along with links, etc.. So I resent the name calling. Every Mitt Romney thread gets spammed by people posting videos from 1994 but Fred Thompson’s positions back them can’t be talked about. That’s funny. Sooner or later people will begin to realize that their positions have evolved in a very similar way and if the flip flopping label applies to one of them then it applies to both.


327 posted on 06/25/2007 10:13:24 AM PDT by DieselHoplite
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To: trussell; Coleus

That was the only pro-abortion vote cast by Fred Thompson in his 8 years in the Senate. 97% of the votes he cast that involved the abortion issue were pro-life.


328 posted on 06/25/2007 10:16:36 AM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: DieselHoplite

ROFL, you are aware that your posting history is readily available, aren’t you?


329 posted on 06/25/2007 10:19:27 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm (<---- is vacationing from gnats)
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To: Cicero

That’s fair enough. My biggest problem with what you said was the claim that Mitt Romney took steps to advance the abortion cause without providing any evidence. Claims like that are what caused all the confusion on this thread to get started. He wouldn’t have been invited to speak at the NRTL conference if what you say is true.


330 posted on 06/25/2007 10:22:33 AM PDT by DieselHoplite
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To: DieselHoplite
So there you have it.

I've never taken a too-hard stance against Romney... he's not as naturally pro-2ndA as I would like him to be, but he realizes this as well and seems willing to learn.

Pro-life issues aren't as die-hard for me (I am pro-life, but have stronger federal issues), however support for PBAs and taxpayer-funding are completely unacceptable -- as in evil and tyrannical, and in that order.

I don't bash Romney, but I'd vote for Ron Paul, Romney, or just about anyone before I'd vote for Giuliani.

331 posted on 06/25/2007 10:24:47 AM PDT by AnnaZ (I keep 2 magnums in my desk.One's a gun and I keep it loaded.Other's a bottle and it keeps me loaded)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

Yes, and I stand by what I said. Usually I only post on FDT threads when they turn into Mitt bashing as a way to make FDT look better. There is not much room for serious discussion based on an objective analysis of the record in those threads. Any dissent is usually met by name calling, but I guess you are probably ok with that since you say it makes you laugh.


332 posted on 06/25/2007 10:36:27 AM PDT by DieselHoplite
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To: dirtboy; Spiff
I have to quote the brilliant post by Spiff who implored everyone to not look at what Fred said but what he actually did --- just asking for the same break:

_________________

Spiff wrote:"What he SAID many years ago was made up for by what he actually DID in Congress. His pro-life record was excellent and he received high ratings from pro-life groups and zero ratings from pro-abortion groups...

We've been over and over this statement so many times on Free Republic, but we can always count on some idiot or newbie (or both) to bring it up again to try to hurt Fred Thompson..."
52 posted on 06/24/2007 9:38:49 AM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")

_________________

Similarly, Romney has an excellent pro-life record -- especially given the fact he had to fight an 85% liberal legislature -- and he was also supported by numerous pro-life organization and maintains their support:

"There are plenty of folks out there who can talk the pro-life talk, but all too often they are the same people missing when it's time for action... Then there are operational social conservatives like Gov. Romney--those with the vision and passion not only to defend but to advance a pro-life, pro-family agenda. Gov. Romney did not become socially conservative as a result of idle hours spent in some oak-paneled classroom. Instead, he became one of us by being in the trenches--where he had choices to make. And as the Governor said, he made the right ones."~~Steve Muscatello evengelicalsformitt.com

Eight prominent leaders of pro-life and pro-family groups in Massachusetts wrote an open letter praising Gov. Romney for his leadership and accomplishments in these important issues and attesting to his commitment to the pro-life and pro-family causes.

Massachusetts Citizens For Life Executive Director Marie Sturgis: "Having Governor Romney in the corner office for the last four years has been one of the strongest assets the pro-life movement has had in Massachusetts." (Kathryn Jean Lopez, "An Early Massachusetts Primary," National Review, 1/10/07)

He vetoed a number of pro-abortion pieces of legislation and made many pro-life appointments. He was always there for us." (Kevin Jourdain, Remarks, Agawam, MA, 5/10/07)

Governor Romney has received the important endorsement of James Bopp, Jr., a nationally-known attorney and leading advocate for the pro-life movement. Jim Bopp reviewed Romney's record as Governor and questioned him personally before giving Romney his endorsement. Bopp most recently joined the Romney Presidential campaign as a special adviser on life issues, an unpaid position.

Bopp wrote about the record of Gov. Romney,
"These actions as governor have lead leaders of the most important social conservative groups in Massachusetts, including Massachusetts Citizens for Life, Massachusetts Family Institute, and the Knights of Columbus, to observe that, while previous comments by Romney “are, taken by themselves, obviously worrisome to social conservatives including ourselves, they do not dovetail with the actions of Governor Romney from 2003 until now — and those actions positively and demonstrably impacted the social climate of Massachusetts.” They conclude that Romney “demonstrat[ed] [his] solid social conservative credentials by undertaking” these actions, and has therefore “proven that he shares our values, as well as our determination to protect them.” (The Best Choice Is Also a Good Choice - Why social conservatives should support Mitt Romney for president, National Review Online, Feb. 21, 2007)

What he SAID many years ago was made up for by what he actually DID


333 posted on 06/25/2007 10:42:50 AM PDT by redgirlinabluestate (MittRocks.blogspot.com)
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To: DieselHoplite

Are you under the impression that we often discuss Mitt Romney on Fred Thompson threads without provocation from his supporters?

Check the posting history of the user JCEccles for a little example of WHY we might take to a few nasty comments about ole Mitt on our own threads.

The Duncan Hunter people at least care about some issues. They can be reasoned with. I’m sure the vast majority of Mitt supporters can too, however the ones that grace us with their presence on Fred Thompson threads are quite the opposite.

So, basically when you see us bashing Mitt Romney on a Fred Thompson thread, 99.99% of the time, you’ll see that the subject of Mitt Romney would not have been brought up were it not for one of his minions attacking Fred Thompson.


334 posted on 06/25/2007 10:43:18 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm (<---- is vacationing from gnats)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
I have to quote the brilliant post by Spiff who implored everyone to not look at what Fred said but what he actually did --- just asking for the same break:

And, once again, Romney signed legislation that provided government funding for abortion. Which negates this claim by you:

BOTH Thompson and Romney did everything to limit the expansion of abortion while in office

I just showed Romney did not. So you shift your position while attacking me for refuting your spin with the facts.

335 posted on 06/25/2007 10:46:12 AM PDT by dirtboy (Impeach Chertoff and Gonzales. We can't wait until 2009 for them to be gone.)
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To: DieselHoplite

I generally stay away from the Mitt Romney threads. As I indicated, I think there are problems, but nothing like the problems with Giuliani. I don’t see any point in worrying about them at this early stage. Let’s see how things work out.


336 posted on 06/25/2007 10:49:54 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: dirtboy
but Romney is stronger on immigration As of last week.

No, actually, Mitt took tough anti-illegal actions BEFORE the marches in our streets, BEFORE we all woke up and were outraged by the invasion.

Examples of Romney's Prior anti-illegal immigration record

(notice the dates):

Mitt Romney opposed a bill that would have allowed illegal aliens to get driver’s licenses. "Those who are here illegally should not receive tacit support from our government that gives an indication of legitimacy," the governor said, echoing arguments that opponents have voiced in the Commonwealth and in other states considering similar license measures. "If they are here illegally, they should not get driver's licenses," he said. (Scott S. Greenberger, "Romney Stand Dims Chances Of License For Undocumented," The Boston Globe, 10/28/03)

Romney vetoed a bill in 2004 that would have permitted illegal aliens to pay the same in-state tuition rate paid by citizens at public colleges and universities in Massachusetts. (Office Of The Governor, "Romney Signs $22.402B Fiscal Year 2005 'No New Tax' Budget," Press Release, 6/25/04)

Romney arranged a federal and state agreement enabling Massachusetts State Troopers to investigate immigration status and arrest illegal aliens they encounter during the normal course of their duties. (Troopers would arrest immigrants, Boston Globe, June 21, 2006) (Governor Romney, ICE Sign Immigration Enforcement Pact, Dec. 13, 2006) (Video: Maricopa County Sheriff Arpaio debates LULAC spokesman about MA pact with ICE)

Governor Romney fought efforts to weaken Massachusetts' English Immersion Law. "But yesterday, Romney press secretary Shawn Feddeman said the governor will fight all attempts to slow the implementation of English immersion, known on the ballot as Question 2. ...He will veto anything that weakens or delays English immersion, Feddeman said." (Anand Vaishnav, "Romney Firm On English Timetable," The Boston Globe, 1/24/03)

Governor Romney increased funding by nearly 30% ($8 million) in Fiscal Year 2006 for English as a Second Language, adult literacy and adult secondary education for legal immigrants residing in Massachusetts. The increase enabled statewide adult basic education programs to accommodate approximately 4,000 more students each year. (Romney Expands Adult Basic Education for Immigrants, January 28, 2005)

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio was named as Honorary Chair for the Romney for President campaign in Arizona. Sheriff Arpaio, better known as "America’s Toughest Sheriff", has gained a nationwide reputation for his tough stance on crime, illegal immigration and border security in the nation's fourth largest county.

"I like him," Arpaio said of Mitt Romney. "He's a man of principle, of good character. He did a great job in Massachusetts and I feel he's going to make a great president."

_______________________

Romney's Position Today:
Strong border and internal enforcement and security. Romney strongly supports a wall, fence or other effective restraint along the U.S.-Mexico border. (Romney calls for border barrier, The Dallas Morning News, April 12, 2007)

Romney said that McCain's proposed "Z visa" should be called an "A visa" -- "because it's amnesty and that's what it stands for."

337 posted on 06/25/2007 10:51:22 AM PDT by redgirlinabluestate (MittRocks.blogspot.com)
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To: redgirlinabluestate

Mitt was for amnesty before he was against it. Another Mitt-flop.


338 posted on 06/25/2007 10:52:41 AM PDT by dirtboy (Impeach Chertoff and Gonzales. We can't wait until 2009 for them to be gone.)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

That’s fine. Fair enough. I can agree that every candidate has supporters that can get carried away at times. Many attacks are clearly unfair. But only the unfair attacks directed at one specific candidate are met with immediate banishment from the site.


339 posted on 06/25/2007 10:53:22 AM PDT by DieselHoplite
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To: dirtboy

His record indicates otherwise, but you keep spinning.


340 posted on 06/25/2007 11:10:17 AM PDT by redgirlinabluestate (MittRocks.blogspot.com)
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