Victoria's Secret ~~ Libby Trial Deliberations: 3-1-07

firedoglake.com ^ | 3-1-07 | Empty Wheel

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Victoria’s Secret By emptywheel @ 6:58 am

The jury is starting another day of deliberations. No word yet on a verdict — you'll know as soon as we know. And in the meantime…

Also, yesterday afternoon (3:45) the jury asked for another post-it flip chart pad.

We would like another big Post-it pad. The large one for the easel.

Someone has been in too many business brainstorming sessions, I think. Jokes in the media room about "The Libby Trial, brought to you by Post-It."

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And a prosecutor takes a shot at Victoria Toensing for her WaPo article.

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Remember a few weeks ago, when Jim Marcinkowski challenged Ted Wells to put his punk on the stand –either one of them.

here:

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/13/hey-come-on-put-your-punk-on-the-stand-2/

Well, it seems like Marcinkowski is a little bit irked that Wells didn't do so. Because he really lays the slapdown on Victoria Toensing in this post at No Quarter. He starts by reminding her (and who should have to remind Toensing of this, after her rants about Clinton?) that perjury is a crime.

Second, to allege that there first must be an underlying crime to bring a perjury charge is flat wrong, and every first-year law student knows it. Perjury is itself a crime, period. Under the Grand Jury system, evidence is presented to a panel.

If the panel decides that a crime was committed, then an indictment is issued. If not, the case ends. Either way, the evidence submitted must be the truth. You don’t get to lie to a Grand Jury. That’s pretty simple, unless of course you feel that one should be free to lie and suffer no consequence - hardly an argument that should be advanced by an attorney and officer of the court.

Marcinkowski then explains a few things about spying.

To assert that Valerie was not covert is to assert that the CIA operates public branch offices overseas. Victoria, here’s a news flash for you - there are a lot of people in this world that don’t like the United States in general and the CIA in particular. Anyone in the CIA traveling overseas would be as nuts as your op-ed to reveal that association. CIA officers and offices are placed all over the world. I really don’t recall the CIA crest adorning any office or being listed in any embassy directory. Victoria, the CIA is a spy agency, it is full of spies who spy on objects of interest to the United States. There are no non-covert spies.

To add a gloss of legitimacy, Ms. Toensing erroneously cites the law as requiring the covert agent to have had a “foreign assignment,” then concludes that Valerie was not “stationed” overseas.

Nice try. The law uses neither of these descriptions as a basis for defining the criminal act of disclosing the identity of a covert agent. The law only requires that the agent have served overseas within the preceding five years of his or her disclosure. CIA officers may very well serve overseas by meeting with secret sources in third countries.

The fact that they may be “stationed” or “assigned” to Washington, D.C. does not prohibit them from serving overseas by actually engaging in clandestine operations in other countries and returning thereafter to this country.

Would the purpose of the law designed to protect our agents operating overseas be served by distinguishing between the two scenarios? If so, then Ms. Toensing, who claims to have assisted the Senate Intelligence Committee in drafting the law, did a very lousy job.

And finally, he hits the right note of seriousness about a office of the court making false statements.

Rules of professional conduct for attorneys around the country make numerous references to truth telling both inside and outside the courtroom, e.g. “…an advocate must disclose the existence of perjury….” or, “…a lawyer shall not knowingly make a false statement of material fact or law to a third person…”

That about hits all the right notes, huh?

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[Lancey Howard]

To add a gloss of legitimacy, Ms. Toensing erroneously cites the law as requiring the covert agent to have had a “foreign assignment,” then concludes that Valerie was not “stationed” overseas.

Nice try.

Yeah, Ms. Toensing was only one of the staffers who WROTE the friggin law - - firedoglake certainly would know better than her.

[Txsleuth]

Thanks for the updates.

I posted earlier that the jury should be sequestered this weekend, IMHO..

I can't believe that judge would NOT answer their question about what a word "meant" because of the time...AFTER telling them they can't look at a dictionary.

How many people would bet money they don't ALL look it up this weekend???

I betcha we end up losing another juror over this...and they will have to start all over with an alternate.

[Txsleuth]

Hi sweet you!!!

I am so sorry that you are still on a rice diet...that has to be getting old.

I have been praying for you...and missing you!!

sleuth

[the Real fifi]

In response to a couple of upthread questions:
1) The jurors have been brought to and from the courthouse from a central location by the marshalls in a special van every day.
2)The standard procedure is that no juror is ever allowed a dictionary or other non-record reference materials. If they have a question it is to be posed to the judge who after consulation w/ counsel and on the record provides an answer to the inquiry.

[onyx]

((( sleuth ))) I am starting to really appreciate and like rice. :0) Off to eat some now.

[CutePuppy]

Thanks for answers.

Re 1) I was not sure if it were SOP (you confirmed it is) or a courtesy by judge due to bad weather condition in DC - I had no problems with either.

Re 2) Do they like their juries "barefoot and pregnant", too? Or afraid they might learn something [new] by looking in the dictionary? Sheesh.

[the Real fifi]

It is not to keep people stupid--it is to make certain that all the jurors are working on the same basis of information and that that basis is in the record. Some words like "reasonable doubt" and "material" have specific legal meaning and it is important that everyone understand what that meaning if,

[CutePuppy]

Yeah, I thought there maybe some legal dictionary with definitions translated from legalese to English, so everyone would work off of the same definitions.

The line about jurors "not dressed for court" was precious, I thought.

[Steve_Seattle]

"They're busy sorting through the details, peeling back layers of the onion,"

In other words, like Fitz, they've caught Watergate Syndrome, and are seeing some vast conspiracy of "All The President's Men," when what was really happening was a few guys trying to figure out who the hell Joseph Wilson was, and what was he talking about? The real conspirators were Wilson, Corn, Plame, et al.

[STARWISE]

And look at all the fodder for their books.

[Enchante]

"They were to a one grinning from ear to ear, giggling, having the time of their lives"

I don't trust anything coming from "FireDogPuke" but if there is something to this and the jurors are really united and enjoying themselves then that would certainly bode ill for Libby. They could simply be agreeing to spend enough time together to "educate" themselves for their new media careers as propagandists for the left. I don't like to despair in advance of the verdict, but I cannot imagine any DC jury enjoying themselves so much if there was any chance they would not convict Libby..........

Of course, this could merely be wishful thinking from our friends at FireDogPuke........

[CutePuppy]

Don't know about covert - I imagine there would be several levels of that. But Val, at the time of this whole embroglio, was pounding a desk at Langley and not in the field...and hadn't been for, what....2 years?

---

Besides Fedora excellent dissection of this subject, a very good summary and links on this thread :
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1790984/posts

Specifically posts #38, #49, #53 relate to Plame's employment history.