Posted on 01/24/2007 5:26:55 PM PST by PJ-Comix
PJ, as Mark Twain once said, "The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is really a large matter -- it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." Almost doesn't count. Interesting Times has already given you a timeline of how Brian Craig contacted Jennifer Webster and when the SwiftBoat Ad went on air. Great minds come up with similar ideas all the time. You see people post the 'almost identical' thought here on FR threads every day!
I say to any reporters, researchers, and/or historians out there...check the ORIGINAL clip that Brian Craig played on the radio. I think you can hear it by contacting WNN Radio.
You have the history right here on this thread. Interesting Times has interviewed each of the players and has reported what happened.
Okay, this might not be all that big of a deal but as a history buff, I do want to see the historical record on this set straight.
This isn't the historical record that you're trying to set straight. What you're trying to do is spin. That isn't history it's an agenda.
Regards,
TS
If you want to know about John Kerry, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him thirty years ago.” Brian Craig took Edwards statement as a challenge and played this statement followed by some of the negative comments that had been made on the Steve Kane Show by some of the swift boat veterans. Brian contacted the swift boat veterans who by now had organized and informed them of Edwards’ statement and his response to it. This suggestion was turned into the television ad that received so much national attention. Many analysts believe that the swift boat ads slowed Senator Kerry’s building of momentum.
We'll miss Kerry. He was soooooooo easy.
Sorry but that just doesn't cut it. Out of ALL the creative ideas that could have been used, the original Swift Boat Vet commercial was almost identical in format as the original radio clip. Have you HEARD that clip? It is much too close to the subsequent commercial to be just a mere coincidence. Then we have this observation by Nat Trayger:
Brian contacted the swift boat veterans who by now had organized and informed them of Edwards’ statement and his response to it. This suggestion was turned into the television ad that received so much national attention. Many analysts believe that the swift boat ads slowed Senator Kerry’s building of momentum.
See what was stated by Trayger? Brian Craig CONTACTED the Swift Boat Vets and played his clip for them.
You have the history right here on this thread. Interesting Times has interviewed each of the players and has reported what happened.
Did Interesting Times interview Brian Craig or Nat Trayger or Steve Kane?
This isn't the historical record that you're trying to set straight. What you're trying to do is spin. That isn't history it's an agenda.
What agenda? Ironically I have been called an "agenda caller" by Brian Craig. And guess what? That shows I don't have some sort of agenda for building him up since he has slammed me on the air. My only "agenda" here is to set the historical record straight. It almost sounds like some folks out there have their history on this written in stone and NOTHING else should be allowed to change that.
I believe Interesting Times interviewed Brian Craig. He has stated that on this thread. Your agenda is that the first hand account Interesting Times related on this thread rains on your little parade of your personal involvement. Oh well.
Now tell us what it was like the first time you listened to a pro baseball game on the radio!
Craig told me on the phone that he called Jennifer Webster and TOLD her about the clip, but never played it for her, or for any of the Swift Vets. Case closed.
Therefore the ORIGINAL idea came from Brian Craig. Case closed.
Now you are continuing to insist, in the face of the evidence, that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth stole somebody else's ad and are now lying about it.
That's a serious accusation against people I respect highly. Let me suggest that you have a moral obligation to back it up with some actual evidence of your own.
"Gosh, those ads sure sounded the same to me" doesn't qualify, especially since Brian Craig's "ad" didn't so much as have a Swift Boat veteran in it. Neither does repeating somebody else's second-hand quote about Craig "showing his ad to the Swift Vets" that has since been refuted by Craig himself.
Actual evidence, showing that Craig's ad in some way influenced the Swift Vets - that's what I'm looking for. Brian Craig couldn't come up with any, but no doubt you can do better. Surely your legion of fans deserves no less?
If you can't do that, then you're just wasting everybody's time. And God knows, you've already wasted enough of mine.
Even thought the format was almost identical? Hmmm....
Now you are continuing to insist, in the face of the evidence, that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth stole somebody else's ad and are now lying about it.
I never said they stole the idea. The idea was freely given to them by Brian Craig. It's not like he is trying to get some compensation for that. The fact that Kerry was defeated is compensation enough for him.
That's a serious accusation against people I respect highly. Let me suggest that you have a moral obligation to back it up with some actual evidence of your own.
There is no "accusation." I never said the idea was stolen. It was GIVEN to them. As to evidence...I present my own ears which heard the original clip, Brian Craig's account on the radio about contacting the Swift Boat Vets, and the account of Nat Trayger that I posted on this thread.
"Gosh, those ads sure sounded the same to me" doesn't qualify, especially since Brian Craig's "ad" didn't so much as have a Swift Boat veteran in it. Neither does repeating somebody else's second-hand quote about Craig "showing his ad to the Swift Vets" that has since been refuted by Craig himself.
Not so much showing as suggesting based on the radio clip he aired. Believe me it is "eerily" similar to the TV commercial.
Actual evidence, showing that Craig's ad in some way influenced the Swift Vets - that's what I'm looking for.
Um...Contacting the Swift Boat vets and telling them about the format of his radio clip?
If you can't do that, then you're just wasting everybody's time. And God knows, you've already wasted enough of mine.
I'll tell you what. Why not have a neutral third party investigator check it out. That would include also contacting Brian Craig, Nat Trayger, Steve Kane and anybody else you would suggest. Also this investigator should listen to the original radio clip and compare it to the TV commercial. As stated before, I don't have an "agenda" other than setting the historical record straight.
I live in Boston area and watched TV coverage that night. One local station, Ch 56, mentioned that everyone was in great spirits at first but as the night wore on it turned to dread, panic, etc. at Kerry HQ and in the crowd.
Whenever I want a good slice of Schadenfreude I just type kerry party tears bitterness into a search engine and I get this article from CNS news:
-----
As President George Bush edged closer to the 270 electoral votes necessary to secure re-election, supporters of Democratic nominee John Kerry openly wept and consoled each other at the Election Night celebration in Boston's Copley Square.
Some Kerry supporters called Bush's platform "all lies" and heckled a group of College Republicans who were passing through the crowd.
A distraught woman confronted Democratic U.S. Rep. Harold Ford in the lobby of the Fairmont Copley Plaza Hotel and screamed, "Can you tell me why everybody made a mistake?" .Ford responded, "Let me talk to the candidate before I make a comment. It's been a long day."
Another woman standing near Ford began to openly weep at the prospect of a Kerry loss.
(snip)
When CNSNews.com asked why he had confidently predicted a Kerry victory just a few hours earlier, (Gray) Davis responded, "I, like many people saw the exit polls, which saw Kerry ahead in every battleground state."
"We believed they were a precursor of a great evening," a somber Davis explained.
(snip)
Meanwhile, outside Kerry's Copley Square rally, a contingent of College Republicans from Northeastern University marched through the sea of Kerry supporters and got heckled.
"You vote for Bush, you get what you deserve," shouted Kerry supporter Bob Bryant to the GOP contingent.
"Bush has put forward a platform that people tend to believe even though it's all lies. Bush is dishonest; he is not being honest with the American people," Bryant said.
Another man shouted to the Republicans "This is why the rest of the world calls us ignorant Americans. You obviously don't read the newspapers or you would not believe as you do."
A woman, unhappy the Republicans were there, screamed, "someone shut up those idiots.'
Brian Henchey, one of the College Republicans marching through the crowd told CNSNews.com that he had "never seen more sad and depressed faces in my life than what I have seen here in Copley Square tonight."
Kerry supporters from Ireland weighed in on why they believe Bush will likely be re-elected.
"It clarifies the fact that American people aren't so smart. If I could, I would have voted for Kerry," said the woman.
Speaking of getting heckled...I've sure caught a lot of flak on this thread for trying to set the record straight as to who was the originator of the Swift Boat Vets For Truth Commercial. Again, I invite any neutral investigator to contact Brian Craig, Nat Trayger, and Steve Kane about this. In addition, I would urge the investigator to listen to Brian Craig's radio clip that he put together and compare it to the TV commercial. Then the investigator should report here on his findings and conclusions.
That said, since it appears that the original Craig clip is history, I think you're whippin' a dead horse here! It seems you will never persuade some to the contrary. It is very possible the two commercials were developed independently, though I have to admit it is not likely very probable.
I find it amazing the amount of passion involved in such a trivial matter. After all, anyone who researched Lurch knows he is anything but a hero of anything!
Just thank the good Lord he was defeated! If not, we would be in deep doo doo by now!
All I ask is for an independent investigation for the historical record.
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