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My Answer To The AP, Again
Flopping Aces ^ | 12/09/06 | Curt

Posted on 12/09/2006 12:49:47 AM PST by Starman417



As is typical I was at work when something big occurred in the blogging world.  It appears the AP has issued another silly rebuttal to this growing scandal of the Burning Six and I just checked it out.  (above graphic made by Are We Lumberjacks)

First thought, isn't this the same rebuttal as the last one except for a added history lesson?
In recent days, a handful of people have stridently criticized The Associated Press’ coverage of a terrible attack on Iraqi citizens last month in Baghdad. Some of those critics question whether the incident happened at all and declare that they don't believe our reporting.

Indeed, a small number of them have whipped themselves into an indignant lather over the AP's reporting.
A few people?  Come on now.  If there was only a few people you wouldn't feel the need to issue not one but two inane rebuttals.
We have sent journalists to the neighborhood three different times to talk with people there about what happened. And those residents have repeatedly told us, in some detail, that Shiite militiamen dragged six Sunni worshippers from a mosque, drenched them with kerosene and burned them alive.

No one else has said they have actually gone to the neighborhood. Particularly not the individuals who have criticized our journalism with such barbed certitude.
Ok, lets hear their names?  How many of them were there who witnessed it?  Where are the families of those killed?

Then she tries to tell us that we have no right to question them because we are not in Iraq?  If you would just produce this Jamil Hussein with proof that he is indeed a police officer employed by the Iraqi government then this whole friggin thing would go away.  But what do you do Ms. Carroll?  Instead of providing proof you attack those who question you. 

What should that tell us about your story? 
What we found were more witnesses who described the attack in particular detail as well as describing the fear that runs through the neighborhood. We ran a lengthy story on those additional findings, as well as the questions, on Nov. 28.
Um, hello?  You found three unnamed witnesses.  That's it.  Out of a whole neighborhood you found three witnesses who would not give their names.  Puhlease.
Some of AP's critics question the existence of police Capt. Jamil Hussein, who was one (but not the only) source to tell us about the burning.

These critics cite a U.S. military officer and an Iraqi official who first said Hussein is not an authorized spokesman and later said he is not on their list of Interior Ministry employees. It’s worth noting that such lists are relatively recent creations of the fledgling Iraqi government.
The lists are a new creation, so what?  If its wrong then prove that Jamil Hussein is employed as a police officer in the Iraqi government.  What is so hard about this Ms. Carroll?  Do you not understand that the reason this is gaining more and more traction is because Jamil has not been produced.  No evidence whatsoever has been introduced that proves he is a legitimate police officer, or hell, even a real person.  All we have is your word and I am sorry to tell ya, not many people take reporters at their word these days.
No one – not a single person – raised questions about Hussein’s accuracy or his very existence in all that time. Those questions were raised only after he was quoted by name describing a terrible attack in a neighborhood that U.S. and Iraqi forces have struggled to make safe.
Listen, he had been named in reports going back to April.  No one had bothered to check out this guy up till that point, that's all.  I got a hunch and started checking on it and I gotta tell ya, it wasn't that hard to put two and two together.  Basically what I did was called fact checking.  Something I assumed you reporters went to school to learn how to do.  My bad I suppose.  It took one blogger to figure this out, and I'm not the smartest of the bunch by a long shot.  Imagine what kind of REAL reporting your employees could do if they did the fact checking themselves instead of believing stories made out of thin air all because it fits their preconceived beliefs.
The story of the burnings has gotten far more attention in the United States than in Iraq, where vicious torture and death are sadly commonplace. Dozens of Iraqi citizens are gunned down in their cars, dragged from their homes or blown apart in public places every single day.
According to the AP stringers I may add.  While I understand there is violence going on in Iraq, as there is in every city on this earth, the atrocities committed in Iraq seem to take on a mythical scale when reported by the AP.  When I contact the military I get a bit different story.  Still violent but the numbers seem to highly exaggerated quite a bit.

Take for example this report which I blogged on yesterday:
A total of at least 75 people were killed or found dead across Iraq on Wednesday, including 48 whose bullet-riddled bodies were found in different parts of the capital.
When I contacted Centcom they told me that the numbers were a bit different:
For the 24 hours ending Dec. 7 at 6 a.m., MNCI has reports 21 bodies being found through Iraq -- 19 in Baghdad and surrounding area, 1 in Tikrit, and 1 in Suwayrah.

However, Coalition Forces is not the authority on these matters because they are categorized as criminal events. Unfortunately, this means that our number cannot be the definitive figure used for the truth.  It only represents the number of bodies that our folks have been able to verify as having been found in one way or another.  I know that the Ministries of Interior and Health have been attempting to get the reporting of inflated numbers under control.

We have been tracking, however, that since August or so, the daily number of bodies reported typically is a little more than double the figure that we have -- so in that respect, today seems fairly normal.

Vr,
LT Dean
So the military along with the Iraqi government recognize that these inflated numbers are indeed a problem.  The AP gets information from a unreliable source that there is close to 50 bullet riddled bodies found dumped in Baghdad but in reality only 21 were. 

21 is still a large number and deserving of a report by the AP but why not print that?  Why not add a paragraph that says the military and Iraqi government dispute the figure given and then print their number also?

I tell you why.  It's because 48 sounds much worse then 21.  This gives their bias a chance to get in print.  They believe in their hearts that Iraq is in a civil war, that it's a disaster, and nothing will change that unless we cut and run.  As they did during Vietnam they will print unsubstantiated rumors as fact so long as it provides the means to their goal.  A total retreat and a huge Bush failure.
As careful followers of the Iraq story know well, various militias have been accused of operating within the Interior Ministry, which controls the police and has long worked to suppress news of death-squad activity in its ranks. (This is the same ministry that questioned Capt. Hussein’s existence and last week announced plans to take legal action against journalists who report news that creates the impression that security in Iraq is bad, “when the facts are totally different.”)
Oh geez, here we go.  More of the big bad Government excuse.  I have to quote Allah from Hot Air on this one:
She’s all but accusing the MOI spokesman who challenged them of being a Sadrist tool, which I guess means we’re unwittingly doing the bidding of the Mahdi Army by extension. The AP’s been accused of doing the bidding of terrorists itself, of course, and in case not so unwittingly. So, touche.
If you really believe that the Iraqi government is the tool of Sadr then please just produce Jamil Hussein.  Produce him and prove to the world that we are all a bunch of douchbags who know nothing about how hard it is for those AP reporters in the Green zone.

Alas, it's been two weeks now and no evidence that he even exists.
It's awfully easy to take pot shots from the safety of a computer keyboard thousands of miles from the chaos of Baghdad.
Her typical line.  She used it during the Green Helmet fiasco and she uses it here. 

How dare we question them.....

In a court of law you would have lost already Ms. Carroll, and lost big time.  In the court of public opinion I can only hope that you continue to lose credibility until you decide to report the news, instead of make it up.

Meanwhile Confederate Yankee is calling out the liberal bloggers for ignoring this story.  Surprised they would ignore this?   Didn't think so.
You would think that the possibility of such widespread fraud would bring forth all bloggers hoping to call into question what appears to be a terminally flawed methodology of news gathering. Instead, the cry for the Associated Press to produce Jamil Hussein, to examine their stringer-based reporting methods, and launch an impartial investigation into how things could have gone so horribly wrong, has been almost exclusively an endeavor from the center-right blogosphere and conservative-leaning media outlets.

Surely, I thought, not just conservatives desire facts and accuracy in the reporting from the world's largest media organization. These stories, if inaccurate, impact all of us, regardless of political persuasion.
Alas, he thought wrong.  They have totally ignored this story.  Oh, a few have railed against us stirring the pot because you know the AP is right.  Iraq is bad, they say.  How could you really believe otherwise....I mean the news tells us so.

Sigh....

PS -




TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: ap; associatedpress; bias; iraq; jamilgate; jamilhussein

1 posted on 12/09/2006 12:49:50 AM PST by Starman417
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To: Starman417

Is this our ol' buddy Jill, or another Ms. Carroll?


2 posted on 12/09/2006 2:48:24 AM PST by scrabblehack
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To: Starman417
From AustinBay:The AP Responds on Jamil Hussein

*****************************************Excerpted*******************************

12/8/2006

The AP Responds on Jamil Hussein

Filed under: — site admin @ 4:04 pm

The Associated Press’ Kathleen Carroll has written a response to critiques of the AP’s “six burned Sunnis” story. I wrote a column asking about the source, alleged Police Captain Jamil Hussein. I also pointed out that a number of people would not be satisfied if the AP investigated itself.

by Kathleen Carroll 

***

In recent days, a handful of people have stridently criticized The
Associated Press’ coverage of a terrible attack on Iraqi citizens last
month in Baghdad. Some of those critics question whether the incident
happened at all and declare that they don’t believe our reporting.

Indeed, a small number of them have whipped themselves into an indignant
lather over the AP’s reporting.

Their assertions that the AP has been duped or worse are unfounded and
just plain wrong.

No organization has done more to try to shed light on what happened Nov.
24 in the Hurriyah neighborhood of Baghdad than The Associated Press.

We have sent journalists to the neighborhood three different times to talk
with people there about what happened. And those residents have repeatedly
told us, in some detail, that Shiite militiamen dragged six Sunni
worshippers from a mosque, drenched them with kerosene and burned them
alive.

No one else has said they have actually gone to the neighborhood.
Particularly not the individuals who have criticized our journalism with
such barbed certitude.

The AP has been transparent and fair since the first day of our reporting
on this issue.

We have not ignored the questions about our work raised by the U.S.
military and later, by the Iraqi Interior Ministry. Indeed, we published
those questions while also sending AP journalists back out to the scene to
dig further into what happened and why others might be questioning the
initial accounts.

The AP mission was to get at the facts, wherever those facts took us.

What we found were more witnesses who described the attack in particular
detail as well as describing the fear that runs through the neighborhood.
We ran a lengthy story on those additional findings, as well as the
questions, on Nov. 28.

Some of AP’s critics question the existence of police Capt. Jamil Hussein,
who was one (but not the only) source to tell us about the burning.

These critics cite a U.S. military officer and an Iraqi official who first
said Hussein is not an authorized spokesman and later said he is not on
their list of Interior Ministry employees. It’s worth noting that such
lists are relatively recent creations of the fledgling Iraqi government.

By contrast, Hussein is well known to AP. We first met him, in uniform, in
a police station, some two years ago. We have talked with him a number of
times since then and he has been a reliable source of accurate information
on a variety of events in Baghdad.

No one - not a single person - raised questions about Hussein’s accuracy
or his very existence in all that time. Those questions were raised only
after he was quoted by name describing a terrible attack in a neighborhood
that U.S. and Iraqi forces have struggled to make safe.

That neighborhood, Hurriyah, is a particularly violent section of Baghdad.
Once a Sunni enclave, it now is dominated by gunmen loyal to anti-American
Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Many people there talked to us about the
attack, but clammed up when they realized they might be quoted publicly.
They felt understandably nervous about bringing their accusations up in an
area patrolled by a Shiite-led police force that they suspect is allied
with the very militia accused in these killings.

Here’s how AP veteran Patrick Quinn described life in Hurriyah on Oct. 11
this year:

“By early October, Shiite militiamen were roaming the streets of Hurriyah,
kidnapping, killing and intimidating Sunnis. Handbills circulating this
fall warned that 10 Sunnis would die for every Shiite killed.'’

In a Nov. 22 story on how October was the deadliest month on record for
Iraqi civilians, AP Baghdad bureau chief Steve Hurst wrote: “Lynchings
have been reported as Sunnis and Shiites conduct a merciless campaign of
revenge killings.

“Some Shiite residents in the north Baghdad neighborhood of Hurriyah claim
that militiamen and death squads are holding Sunni captives in warehouses,
then slaughtering them at the funerals of Shiites killed in the
tit-for-tat murders.”

No one from the Iraqi Interior Ministry or the U.S. military complained
about those descriptions. In fact, soldiers of the U.S. Army’s 1st
Battalion, 17th Infantry, 172nd Stryker Brigade were dispatched to
Hurriyah late this summer to try to bring it under control.

AP’s Lauren Frayer, embedded with the 172nd during the Hurriyah
deployment, described their efforts in early November. Capt. R. Tyler
Willbanks, from Gallatin, Tenn., said “there were 25 dead bodies a day
before we got here&hellip” a number they got down to three a day before
the latest eruption at the end of November.

The story of the burnings has gotten far more attention in the United
States than in Iraq, where vicious torture and death are sadly
commonplace. Dozens of Iraqi citizens are gunned down in their cars,
dragged from their homes or blown apart in public places every single day.

As careful followers of the Iraq story know well, various militias have
been accused of operating within the Interior Ministry, which controls the
police and has long worked to suppress news of death-squad activity in its
ranks. (This is the same ministry that questioned Capt. Hussein’s
existence and last week announced plans to take legal action against
journalists who report news that creates the impression that security in
Iraq is bad, “when the facts are totally different.”)

The Iraqi journalists who work for the AP are smart, dedicated and
incredibly courageous to go into the streets every day, talking to their
countrymen and trying to capture a portrait of their home in a historic
and tumultuous period.

The work is dangerous: two people who work for AP have been killed since
this war began in 2003. Many others have been hurt, some badly.

Several of AP’s Iraqi journalists were victimized by Saddam Hussein’s
regime and bear scars of his torture or the loss of relatives killed by
his goons. Those journalists have no interest in furthering the chaos that
makes daily life in Iraq so perilous. They want what any of us want: To be
able to live and work without fear and raise their children in peace and
safety.

Questioning their integrity and work ethic is simply offensive.

It’s awfully easy to take pot shots from the safety of a computer keyboard
thousands of miles from the chaos of Baghdad.

The Iraq war is one of hundreds of conflicts that AP journalists have
covered in the past 160 years. Our only goal is to provide fair, impartial
coverage of important human events as they unfold. We check our facts and
check again.

That is what we have done in the case of the Hurriyah attack. And that is
why we stand by our story.

End of Statement


3 posted on 12/09/2006 8:45:36 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: All

Go to the link for the commentary....


4 posted on 12/09/2006 8:49:15 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: scrabblehack

the same ole buddy Jill


5 posted on 12/10/2006 10:26:36 AM PST by Starman417
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To: Starman417

But now writing under the name "Kathleen Carroll?"


6 posted on 12/10/2006 1:02:58 PM PST by scrabblehack
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