Posted on 11/11/2006 7:55:59 AM PST by kronos77
Main IdeaVirtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret its tenets. This claim, while widely circulated, rarely attracts serious public examination.
ContentThe documentary consists of original interviews, citations from Islamic texts, Islamic artwork, computer-animated maps, footage of Western leaders, and Islamic television broadcasts. Its tone is sober, methodical, and compelling. Outline of the Documentary
IntroductionWe hear from prominent Western leaders that Islam is peaceful and that those who commit violence in its name are heterodox fanatics.
Part 1: ‘There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet’Our interviewees affirm their belief that Islamic violence is entirely orthodox behavior for Muslims and stems directly from the teachings and example of the Prophet Muhammad and the commands of the Koran. We learn that the example of Muhammad is one of a violent warlord who killed numerous people. The Koran – the verbatim words of Allah – prescribes violence against non-Muslims and Muhammad is the perfect example of the Koran in action.
Part 2: The StruggleWe learn that jihad, while literally meaning 'struggle', in fact denotes war fought against non-Muslims in order to bring the rule of Islamic law to the world. Violent death in jihad is, according to the Koran, the only assurance of salvation. One of our interviewees tells of his personal involvement in terrorism and his leaving Islam.
Part 3: ExpansionFollowing the death of Muhammad, his 'rightly-guided' successors carried his wars to three continents, fighting, enslaving, and massacring countless Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and others. Islam did not spread through evangelism or through its natural appeal, but through aggressive wars of conquest.
(Excerpt) Read more at whatthewestneedstoknow.com ...
Ok, let's hear your interpretation of the Hadiths I quoted. Please cite some authoritative Islamic sources, if you can, that argue against the plain reading of what the Hadiths say
Unlike you, I will not present myself as such.
However, expertise is not necessary to reject the murderous violence you promote. Faith alone is sufficient.
It's less a question of what the individual snippets say than how authoritative they are and how they have been interpreted in the past.
From the section on JihadVolume 4, Book 52, Number 44:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah's Cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 65:Narrated Abu Musa:
A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 72:Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah)."
Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: Our Prophet told us about the message of our Lord that "Whoever amongst us is killed will go to Paradise." Umar asked the Prophet, "Is it not true that our men who are killed will go to Paradise and their's (i.e. those of the Pagan's) will go to the (Hell) fire?" The Prophet said, "Yes."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 80i:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one of whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah's Cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the 'killer who also get martyred (In Allah's Cause)."
Wait all you want. You can read these in their historical context or you can be a postmodernist and moral relativist and ignore context completely and try to convince the rest of us that what happened at the Battle of Badr or whatnot is somehow true for all time eternal.
You dodge and weave very well. I congratulate you.
Anybody who wants to can go and read the collection of hadiths and form his own opinion. Besides the chapter on Jihad, I also recommend One-fifth of Booty to the Cause of Allah
Essentially, Mohammod was a very successful sand pirate
The British were our first enemies and our victory was the start of their empire's decline. We should not expect that we have seen the last of them...
From the very beginning of a new nation, who were our allies?
the muslims, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco#Morocco_1666-1912
Today, the long clash between Christendom and Islam is still evident in the political and ethnic geography of Europe, Africa, Byzantium, and north into Russia.
The battle also extends, in varying degrees, throughout the Near and Far East, and the Islands of the Pacific as well.
Many Christian knights, soldiers, and sailors have died defending Christendom against the onslaughts of Islam down through the centuries.
Today, the borders of many European countries, Canada, and the United States are practically wide open, and the old enemy is invited to come in and make himself at home.
And many 'Christians' in the West are just too busy enjoying their material prosperity to be bothered with unpleasant history.
But the enemy has not forgotten history. He remembers it all too well, and he is still deadly serious about his religion.
His goal over the years has not changed in the slightest, and he is very patient. The enemy within is now smiling, just biding his time.
And long dead Christian knights, our ancestors in the Faith, are probably turning over in their graves right about now, trying desperately to shout out a warning.
The final chapter, it seems, has yet to be written....
http://slapstickpolitics.blogspot.com/2006/10/remembering-battle-of-lepanto.html#links
And that's part of the problem. Violent bigots like you and Mohamed Atta can read the Qur'an and see nothing but an obligation to murder and pillage. Opinion is very different from the Truth (and in Truth, God does not require us to be murderers, God requires us to love Him and each other) but if an idiot thinks his opinion is true, God has given us Free Will.
I should have said from the beginning of our presidency, my bad. Washington and Adams paid off the pirates, Jefferson did something about it.
That would be a convenient way to ignore the fact that Morocco was our first ally, wouldn't it?
Listen to what Osama, and the various clerics of Iran and Saudi Arabia say to their congregations. What matters is what the rank-and-file Muslims of the world believe it says. And it's pretty damn obvious that the average Muslim believes that the Qu'ran and Hadith mean exactly what they plainly say
This means that, as more and more people actually read the Hadiths, they will come to the same conclusion as me: there can be no peace between Islam and the West
There was a temporary respite in the conflict between 1683 (the end of the Siege of Vienna) and the latter half of the 20th Century. Less than 400 years in a conflict that lasted since the 7th Century.
The only reason the conflict subsided in the 18th Century was that the Muslims realized that the industrialized West had the ability to exterminate them if we were sufficiently motivated. It's started up again because the Islamic world is convinced that nothing they do will provoke us sufficiently that we will take extreme measures
If you think that Charles Manson and Baruch Goldstein were Christians, that reflects poorly on your command of the history of religious terrorism. If you think that Eric Rudolph and the the Tomás de Torquemada were not Christians, you're digging youself even deeper.
Putting words in other people's mouths is a poor strategy in any argument.
The name of this thread is clearly ISLAM:What the West Needs to Know. Dragging Manson, Goldstein Rudolph and Torquemada (16th century! WTF?) into the discussion is so painfully pathetic that no further comment is necessary.
We are discussing random individual and mass murderers of today the overwhelming number of which on every continent on earth are muslim!
When the maggots murder, we know that he is muslim before the sound of the explosion is gone --- from his own lips.
See the above cases.
See what?
Please cite any reliable non-muslim (they lie shamelessly) sources where Manson, Rudolph, Goldstein and Rudolph mentioned Christianity during or after the commission of their common, albeit egregious crimes.
Incidentally, every one of those common criminals you name were punished by the very society which created them; some paid the untimate price.
Name one muslim mass murderer, whose victims were non-muslims, who has been punished by his islamic "good fellow islamics".
Just one. Take your time.
You're not dealing with ignorant knee-jerk liberals, here.
The solution to Islamic terrorism is:a) Duck and cower.
b) Convert to Islam.
c) Socialism.
d) End the Islamic religion.
Answer: d) End the Islamic religion.
Well, here's your big chance, Achmed, to set us all straight.
Many of us ignorant non-muslims are eager to learn the truth.
Please give us as many sources as you can find from islamic countries, where they are the law, as to the "proper interpretation" of the hadiths.
Nothing personal, but your individual opinion on this subject is worth less than a bucketful of horse-pelosi...
see # 98...
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