Posted on 10/24/2006 7:45:24 PM PDT by Creationist
The Big Bang is consistent with Genesis ~
My God is much more powerful than your god obviously ~ He created the universe and all that's in it, and set every power in motion. He's the God who commands the fields (SEE: field theory) and lays out the bounds of everything (SEE: hyperinflation), and stands astride Time, Space and all the other dimensions.
Your god would seem to be the sort of fellow who could get himself kicked out of heaven and be dashed to earth.
Then there's the issue of what is meant by "earth" in Genesis ~ but that is unknowable since it is without form. Still, somewhere in the as yet unformed, but existing universe, "Earth" does exist, right? The parts are there ~ the quarks and gluons, the strings, everything ~ yet it is not "formed".
We'd have to run the universe backwards from this point to find where those parts were exactly, but Genesis is telling us that this is unknowable ~ even God doesn't particularly know back at the time of the "Big Bang", but He's busy with other things.
I'd suggest my God is the same God that is manifest as Jesus and the Spirit and your god is the one who is tossed out of Heaven into the bowels of the Earth where he's busy making mischief.
That's the first couple of hundred million years right there, and we've done that BEFORE any discussion whatsoever of DAY.
I simply do not see a conflict between the Big Bang Theory (or rather, the Hyperinflation/Big Bang Theory) and Genesis in that.
You might, but you're jumping the gun and dragging language given later back into the beginning where only God can tell us what happened.
Genesis 1:
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the
Gen 1:5 And God 0430 called 07121 the light 0216 Day 03117, and the darkness 02822 he called 07121 Night 03915. And the evening 06153 and the morning 01242 were the first 0259 day 03117.
Hebrew for first from Strongs Concordance
'echad {ekh-awd'}
1) one (number)
a) one (number)
b) each, every
c) a certain
d) an (indefinite article)
e) only, once, once for all
f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one
g) first
h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)
Hebrew word for day
yowm {yome}
1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow
By the Hebrew definition there is no possible gap, span, great length of time insinuated in Genesis.
Also the Israel people who follow the Torah do not believe in evolution, and great time periods.
Evolution is contrary to the word of God.
You must believe the Bible to be 100% factual or it is a complete lie. I believe it all the way. You?
It is possible for Jews to fail to properly account for the ordering of events in Genesis. It is possible for Christians to fail to do so.
All you've done is make my point that the "Big Bang" and "Genesis" are not incompatible. There's really nothing to argue about until you come up with Genesis saying "On the First Day God created the Heavens and the Earth". Genesis, of course, said the Earth was without form, etc. Many words later Genesis uses the word "day" ~ but not before.
I'm afraid your reading of Genesis is an invention of the human mind and it simply does not match the structure of the language revealed to us.
II Peter 1:20-21
20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
II Timothy 3:16
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
:You said,
“I'm afraid your reading of Genesis is an invention of the human mind and it simply does not match the structure of the language revealed to us.”
If that is true then the above scriptures are also false, and the Levities who were in charge of the keeping of the word did a very bad job of keeping the words of Genesis which the Lord thy God inspired Moses to write.
You said,
“All you've done is make my point that the "Big Bang" and "Genesis" are not incompatible. There's really nothing to argue about until you come up with Genesis saying "On the First Day God created the Heavens and the Earth". Genesis, of course, said the Earth was without form, etc. Many words later Genesis uses the word "day" ~ but not before.”
You seem to think that the first day written in verse five does not happen until millions of years later. If that is true then none of the Bible is worth the paper it is written on. Because it would mean death and destruction which did not happen in the Bible until Adam and Eve at from the tree of Good and Evil.
There is no scriptural claim to the millions of years you proclaim. The only thing you are defending is mans wisdom over God’s written word.
It appears that you must believe what man tells you is the truth and you will pick and chose what you wish to believe in the Bible
John 14:
"6": Jesus saith unto him, I am the way,
the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by meJohn 1:
1: In the beginning was the
Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.If these statements made by God are true then Genesis is true.
You can not have it both ways The Bible is 100% true or it is not that is your decision. I know it is the living word of God and is true to the last jot and tittle.
May the Lord Jesus bless you and yours beyond your expectations.
You are still going to try to pin God down to doing all that basic creation business to "one day" aren't you?
Silly poster ~ God does things in His time, not yours.
BTW, Timothy read the same Genesis story we do ~ fundamental creation of the universe took place BEFORE the idea of day was inserted in the text.
Our assignment of "time" to that period of creation is simply arbitrary. There's no way we can go to the moment of creation and start counting ~ at best we can figure out how much energy was involved and then estimate how fast that energy could flow from one place to another, and how fast places might move apart, and so forth.
Genesis 1
6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
On the second day he created the dry-land and the atmosphere which gave it the form.
I am a builder on the first day of construction the site is without, now mind you I can not build a structure in 6 days.
But God can build an entire universe in six days working and without evolution.
Those who believe that evolution is real and presume to know God limit his power within their minds.
God created everything in six literal days to give us an example of how we should structure our lives. Six days of work for our lives, and one day of praise, worship, and fellowship with like minded believers.
You said,
“BTW, Timothy read the same Genesis story we do ~ fundamental creation of the universe took place BEFORE the idea of day was inserted in the text”
Please enlighten me on this where is your documentation of this. Please show me the Hebrew text that did not have day in it.
You said,
“Our assignment of "time" to that period of creation is simply arbitrary. There's no way we can go to the moment of creation and start counting ~ at best we can figure out how much energy was involved and then estimate how fast that energy could flow from one place to another, and how fast places might move apart, and so forth.”
Let’s break it down,
Our assignment of "time" to that period of creation is simply arbitrary.
I did not assign that definitive God did so it seems that it is not arbitrary, unless you do not except God’s word as true and factual.
There's no way we can go to the moment of creation and start counting.
Partially true, yet we do know that Jesus Christ which is God, was born, lived, judged, crucified, died, and resurrected around 2000 years ago.
We do know that this happened about 2400 years after the flood of Noah’s time.
We also know that the flood happened about 1400 years after Adam was created. We know that the world was created very Good as God had Said in Chapter 1 Genesis, verse 31.
We know that Lucifer had not fallen from Grace yet in the beginning of Creation as in Chapter 28 Ezekiel verse 13-15 he walked in the garden of Eden, he was anointed and covered in precious stones walked on the Holy mountain. God would not bring this up if it had not happened before his fall.
With that said it is a guess that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden for about 100 years (speculative) before they sinned against God and started the dying process for the world and man. All the time lines in the Bible are either true or not. Which you believe is for your decision.
at best we can figure out how much energy was involved and then estimate how fast that energy could flow from one place to another, and how fast places might move apart, and so forth
From the reading I do on the subject of stellar evolution they, them, those, many, some, any, everybody do not have the slightest inclination of why every thing is as it is. They only have speculative theories based upon their presuppositions of a naturalist creative process by which nothing exploded into everything you see, hear, smell, taste and feel, without God as the creative force behind the whole process.
By the red shift patterns {all stars have some red shift and with evolutionary theories speed is the only account for this} every thing is moving away from us so does that mean the BB happened in our solar system?
Our God is a mighty God and can create the Universe as He sees fit.
I think you are missing the point. There is simply no reference to time in the first 72 words in Genesis ~ not God-made, nor human-made. It ain't there!
You literally have to rewrite the Bible to start it out with "time" or references to time.
“I think you are missing the point. There is simply no reference to time in the first 72 words in Genesis ~ not God-made, nor human-made. It ain't there!
You literally have to rewrite the Bible to start it out with "time" or references to time.”
I did not have to rewrite anything,
Genesis 1
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Time, space and matter can not exist with out each other. You can not have space and matter and no time to put them in.
It is clear that the clock started ticking, time began 3rd word.
Genesis doesn't say it didn't, either.
God left that for us to discover.
The Laws of Man are supposed to reflect the Will of God. Not the other way around.
God is beyond that sort of thing.
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