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To: Anthem
As it happens, I've been a LEO and I wouldn't mind doing it again. But my experience leads me to think that straightening it all out is not going to be as easy as that.

Hold accountable? The trick is sorting out the bogus charges from the real ones, when it comes to abuse of power or brutality. Cops may not always be the brightest dime in the junk drawer, but when they misbehave, they don't do it in front of a crowd. And bad guys are not above making false charges. So part of "accountability" will be courts, judges, and lawyers.

Now work on this a minute, please: Imagine I'm paid what cops are paid around here -- a salary level behind that of the state in a more expensive part of the state, a level which positively encourages moonlighting. A friend returned fire when shot at by a citizen who was in somebody else's house with the property of the somebody else in his possession. The citizen in question actually killed my friend's K-9.

So then my friend is taken off the streets for more than a year. He's investigated, the incident is investigated. He's sued. The department is sued. At the end of this time the accused is now out of the hospital and in a wheelchair and the trial is held and the citizen is found guilty of something or other (the DA had lots of choices).

For doing his job, my friend has lost a year on the career ladder and been subjected to considerable suspicion and stress, in addition to the stress of knowing that he inflicted a permanently disabling spinal chord injury on someone.

Now I'm out on a roadblock, fully aware that while every car but one which passes by me is probably a good guy, one car may have a fleeing felon who may be armed and willing to shoot an LEO.

But the Libertarians have won the elections so it is no longer against the law to evade a roadblock or disobey a legal order from a LEO. What the heck am I supposed to do when somebody pulls off the road and tries to get around me? What is my department supposed to do?

What am I going to do if I go where my sergeant told me to go and I find a guy holding a gun who doesn't conspicuously and clearly make himself harmless when I show him my badge and credentials and ask him to show that he can't hurt me?

Faced with questions like this, the real question is going to be,"How much will the citizens be willing to pay for effective screening and training (and continuing education and re-certification and all that), and to compensate men and women to enforce their laws?"

I think most municipalities get slightly better law enforcement than they are willing to pay for. Yes, we troops may have control issues and problems with aggression and all that. But at least at some level we go into the business wanting to help. Then reality sets in and every time a new situation presents itself we are thinking NOT just, "How am I going to get out of this with the least amount of bloodshed - especially my blood?", but also, as the guy approaches us brandishing a tire thumper and taunting and threatening us,"Will I get sued if I defend myself? Will I be investigated? What is the SOP for this situation?" And we're thinking that while looking behind the threat to see if there are any innocent bystanders, where they are, what will happen to bullets which do not stop in the perp, where is the right tactical position for this situation, are there any other threats I may have to deal with ... -- and so on.

If you want that done well, it's going to cost. If you want it done with almost no mistakes, it's going to cost more than most citizens want to pay, after they've used up most of their tax dollars on paying the unemployed to use drugs and have children.

10 posted on 08/15/2006 5:59:41 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Reality is not optional.)
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To: Mad Dawg
--But the Libertarians have won the elections so it is no longer against the law to evade a roadblock or disobey a legal order from a LEO.

Come on, don't feed me a line of bull and we can have a conversation.

Look, if you were in it long enough, you know the training has changed. Your reply was all about cops protecting themselves. Guys who can't step up to a higher level of courage and responsibility for the lives around them shouldn't be in that line of work.

I used to be on friendly terms with the local cops. In the '90s their training obviously changed such that they became unapproachable. They no longer see the community as allies. When I busted a burglar about 5 years ago, the cops that came to get him either didn't speak to me, or the one who did thank me acted as if it was the strangest thing in the world for an able bodied member of the community to be observant about crime in the neighborhood.

The training today is all about control and projecting power. Even the appelation, LEO, is different from Police Officer or the older and more appropriate Peace Officer. They don't recruit for intelligence and judgment -- the system doesn't want cops on the street using their judgment. 'Knock 'em down, haul 'em in, and we'll sort it out' kind of an attitude is what's being taught today. So don't blame it on the inability to recruit good people. It's the training and the Police State attitude from the politicians and bureaucrats. Power and control positions attract thugs. The communists don't go by the name anymore, but the tyranny is unmistakably Soviet.

11 posted on 08/17/2006 1:19:19 AM PDT by Anthem (One can not lie their way to the truth.)
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