Posted on 07/14/2006 9:00:33 PM PDT by Spiff
It's both. Of course they plan to build "a fence," within the bounds of their limited resources. And of course it's meant to be symbolic, to pressure the government to act.
Remember, that was their stated purpose in the first place, when Simcox announced the fence idea.
At the beginning, his group stated: "Our plan: Do the job until our government does its duty. Announce the need for the Minuteman Border Fence. Ask again that President Bush do his duty and secure the border. ... Continue to build fence as fast as resources allow."
No one who read that and then donated had the expectation that civilians would now be in charge of border security. The point was to put pressure on President Bush to secure the border.
I wish I could say "mission accomplished," but the President has not yet secured the border. The pressure thus must continue, as far as possible. In the end, it is up to regular folks like you, me, and the Minutemen, to keep the focus on our leaders who are neglecting their duty.
He can't. He's been telling me for over 5 years now that I can't interpret it correctly, but he has yet to explain why.
I wish it so harmless. Go over and check the Minuteman Pac July report that was just released. I suspect the names are pretty much the same as to to donations to Simcox group as to dontaions. If you notice almost 80 percent of those folks are retired. On limited incomes. Now there are reason why those people are targeted. I had a older relative that we had to make sure all her mail was directed to our house because she was sending money to these type of folks she could not afford. That is often who is sending money.
I am not sure if all these people think this is symbolic. Also let me say when I hear that Simcox is using scare tactics and is quoted as saying that there are Chines troops on the border that concerns me. I can hear my Great Aunt now. There are "communist" on the border. Also the fact that much of this is a device for certain people to make money and in effect have a monolpy on conservative media is troublesome. Just saying this isnt all harmless.
You notice he's provided no evidence to refute the negative facts, and he's been very diligent at bumping the threads so that more people could see the negative facts.
Also, he keeps asking questions that provoke more digging into the negative.
I think he's just playing "bad cop". :-)
As further evidence for my hypothesis, I'll note that he says he doesn't work for the organization in question.
Neither does he seem to support it.
Although of course we've been able to find any information about the MCDP financials online, there is a PAC and a couple of other related organizations that have listed donors online. I can't find on any of the FEC sites any evidence to suggest that he's ever donated to support these "fine" organizations.
If I'm wrong, I expect links and cites to prove it.
Seems pretty much on the up and up to me. No CPA or Auditor is going to risk the loss of a Professional Certification and prison time for this guy.
. If you notice almost 80 percent of those folks are retired
So that makes them...what...stupid? Incompetent to manage their own money?
Now there are reason why those people are targeted.
Maybe because they believe in the guy? Or are you implying that they're all stupid?
Also the fact that much of this is a device for certain people to make money and in effect have a monolpy (sic) on conservative media is troublesome
I'm sure Rupert Murdoch isn't losing any sleep over this guy.
Just saying this isnt all harmless.
Neither is malicious gossip and bearing false witness.
L
Do you know a Cliff May? He says he was on the Gilchrist campaign as an assistant of yours.
All donations are secured in a federal financial institution—a bank, and may be applied only towards the fence building enterprise. The funds cannot be used in any other way.
Then further down:
All of our financial operations are overseen by professionals including a caging agency, banking institutions, a professional accountant, a professional auditor, a non-profits specialty attorney, etc. All checks, credit card and any other cash donations received go directly into designated bank accounts, overseen by these professionals. Yes, professionals we have hired (that means donations go to pay them for services) to ensure fiduciary integrity of the funds donated to the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. Everyone must realize that by hiring responsible and respected professionals we ensure the integrity of the operation and keep funds separated from the volunteer national leadership directors.
Looks like when/if the financial reports come out, we'll be seeing Maureen Otis, American Caging, and either Bill Constantine or Eldon Alexander again...
I wonder if those foolish enough to question the integrity of the finances of this operation would be willing to open their books, expose everything in their bank accounts or rely on unaccredited individuals to manage their finances?
Hopefully those who are donating are wise enough to question the integrity of any organization they would give money to, and demand openness and accountability from such organizations.
On the other hand, as P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute."
Any organization taking money from the public should be willing to account for those funds.
For those who just ask the question where does the money go—let me take you on just a short journey through a rapidly growing national movement. The following is a list of just a few of the areas where the money goes to good use:(I thought it could only go towards building the fence?)
How about background checks, ID cards, email blasts like this one—all our operations cost money. We are constantly reaching out to find and educate more of our fellow Americans, which requires funds be expended for postage and fees for direct mailing, press releases that are professionally written, proofed, and distributed to the mainstream and alternative media (domestic and worldwide), etc. The scheduling of hundreds of television and radio interviews is handled by a professional media firm, as is the placement of our national newspaper, email, and web advertisements.
WOO HOO, more money for Response Unlimited and the other direct mailing companies!
I'm so looking forward to seeing the financials in November. It's a shame all those lawyers and accountants can't come up with anything before then.
Maybe they could work on that between now and when the weather cools down?
Really GOOD post, Amelia.
Thanks for the ping.
ping to #227
I decided maybe dissection was a good thing.
The financial reports are not due out until November 15, well AFTER the election.
Oh yes...lol. I was on that sorry thread last night.
Wow! What shocking revelations! People raise money! They use lawyers and accountants! They pay them! Incredible!
/s
Where's the promised fence?
I will tell you: it's in the promised land!
And? I'm not sure what your point is. I believe these folks are involved with a company which provides direct mail fundraising services. Such companies can provide a package that includes the accounting, caging, mailing, printing, list rental, etc. There is nothing illegal or unethical about direct mail fundraising. The RNC and many conservative organizations do direct mail fundraising and there are only so many national level companies who provide such services and cater to conservative causes, groups, or candidates. I assume that the company being used by MCDP is one such company. And the way such an arrangement works is that such a company creates the mailings containing a fundraising appeal, they usually don't run such mailings past the leader of an organization or a candidate before sending it out but may have it go through a lower level staffer, a valuable list of potential donors (which is what the value of such a company really relies upon) is "rented", the mailings are printed and mailed, a caging company collects and accounts for the donations, anything raised over and above the cost of the printing, mailing, postage, fees, and expensive list rental is placed in an escrow account available to the officers of the organization. The first set of mailings are never intended to do anything more than to break even but to help refine a "house list" of the best donors to target later for the real donations. This is an expensive process and if you don't understand it you'll come up with all kinds of crazy conspiracy-like ideas about why an organization is spending so much on printing, list rental, or such things and why they are "connected" to certain people.
There's no "connection" or conspiracy. A group lie the MCDP locates and contracts with a direct mail service provider and attempts to get the one with the best potential donor lists for their cause or organization. The service does the mailings and the money made above expenses ends up in an escrow account. The leaders of the organization or the candidate likely don't know much about the direct mail company, its officers, its other clients, etc. They may only have picked them because someone recommended them who may have been one of their clients.
WOO HOO, more money for Response Unlimited and the other direct mailing companies!
OK. I guess Response Unlimited is the company they're using. I'm not sure what you're point is. Is there something wrong with Response Unlimited? I did a Google on them and read their website. They advertise that they offer direct mail services and lists for Christian and conservative organizations and candidates. That sounds good to me.
Then there's the Source Watch website who lists their known Clients & Affiliations:
Alan Keyes 2000
Alliance Defense Fund
Christian Action Network
Christian Coalition of America
Christianity Today
Clinton Investigative Commission
Focus on the Family
Gary Bauer for President
George W. Bush for President
Heritage Foundation
Jerry Falwell Ministries
Jesse Helms for Senate
Judicial Watch
National Republican Congressional Committee
National Republican Senatorial Committee
National Rifle Association
National Right to Life
Parents Television Council
Pat Buchanan 2000
Pat Robertson for President
Prison Fellowship Ministries
Republican National Committee
Rudolph W. Giuliani for Senate
Rush Limbaugh
Traditional Values Coalition
Washington Times
World Magazine
The Response Unlimited site shows an even larger list of clientelle right here.
I don't know why you're spending so much time casting unfounded aspersions about a group popular with conservatives and Republicans while there are so many leftist, anti-American groups who are raising funds and even sending some of them to terrorists in Iraq. Maybe your time would be better spent digging into the finances of Code Pink or just about any of the people and groups listed at DiscoverTheNetworks.org - A Guide to the Political Left.
Further Googling showed me attacks on Response Unlimited for their association with "extreme right-wingers". These sites include the leftist grifting smear artists at the Southern Poverty Law Center and some other leftist sites. I wonder if those who are 1.)ignorant of the direct mail process and b.)intent upon attacking the Minutemen are using those leftist sites and their sources for the smears they're spreading on this conservative forum.
George W. Bush for President
Heritage Foundation
National Republican Congressional Committee
National Republican Senatorial Committee
National Rifle Association
National Right to Life
Republican National Committee
Rudolph W. Giuliani for Senate
Rush Limbaugh
Too funny...
It's a conspiracy I tell you! *grin*
Why did things get silent all of a sudden? I mean, Amelia exposed and "dissected" the grand Otis/Constantine/Response Unlimited/Minuteman Project conspiracy and a handful of FROBLs were slapping high fives. Now, for some reason, all that we hear are crickets chirping. Hmmmm....
Must figure they'll get in trouble if they further attack one of the Bush campaign's and the RNC's fundraisers for no legitimate reason...
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