“Illegals” hysteria & the place I can’t go

http://theanchoressonline.com/ ^ | 5/26/06 | anchoress

[Ronin]

If those arrogant pieces of bull crap we call Senators allowed an abomination like THAT to get through, we are supposed to trust them to do this correctly?

Bingo!

If Rush sounds a bit angry over this it's probably because like the rest of the true Conservatives I know, he is heartily sick and tired of having supported the Republicans for the last six years they have been in power, only to have a treasonous knife this despicable shoved between his shoulder blades.

Because this bill is despicable, and support for it borders on treason. That's the only conclusion that anyone who has read the particulars of the thing can draw.

Catholicfreeper, if you haven't already, you really need to read the speech Senator Jeff Sessions made to the Senate before the vote. In it he outlined some of the worst provisions of the bill, but not all, given it's 600+ page length, there is sure to be a number of other bombs in there.

So now it goes to the U.S. House of Representatives. Hopefully, and this is a shaky hope, they will hold the line and put a wooden stake through the heart of this thing. If they do, I will praise once again the wisdom of the founding fathers of this great Republic. But if they fail, it is certain that the United States of 2026 will bare no resemblance to the United States of today.

I can't express the level of disgust I have for the GOP Senators who voted for this thing. It's causing me to wonder if everything the Democrats have always alleged about the Republican Party being the tool of the rich, landed fat-cats isn't true after all.

I may have cast my last ballot for a Republican candidate. The Constitution Party seems to be my ethical home, and maybe it's time I made the switch official.

[WOSG]

"allow 60 million immigrants in the next 2 year,"

ooops, 60 million in the next *20* years.

Source:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

[catholicfreeper]

Well, I agree with on Mccain Feingold. I have told my Congressmen as well my State Reps to please do not vote for anything because you think all the "bad stuff" will get thrown out by a Court. I guess in the end, I think much of this problem will be sorted out by the time the folks that are able to qualify for these programs(guestworker, citizenship etc) are actually calculated. In the end, I think the number is going to be quite lower than expected. I do think the major problem with this guest worker program is that it needs to be smaller and reviewed on a some sort of Quarterly basis so it can be adjusted for economic conditions.

The biggest argument I think the anti Senate bill people have is this. The current bill after its combined with elements of the House bill is not the problem. Its when future Sessions of Congress and future Presidents start messing around with it. I think thats what happen to the infamous 'Reagan Amnesty"

[WOSG]

"I may have cast my last ballot for a Republican candidate."

I hope NOT. A GOP House will probably block it ... this session. A Democrat House next session will likely pass a bill this bad, or worse. A weak showing in November for the GOP will be interpreted by the media as "proof" that the countrywants what the Democrats are voting for -amnesty.

So, at least continue to vote for those Republicans that are true conservatives, please. If you can defeat a RINO out there, go for it.

[bpjam]

What kind of plea deal allows you to keep your ill-gotten gains and then rewards you for accepting it?

Maybe its a Catholic thing that I just can't understand. But there seems to be a whole lot of Catholics in FR who reflexively want us to just roll over on this one and let Ted Kennedy and McCain tell us what is right and wrong. I really need some Catholics here to explain this to me. Is it just because virtually all of these illegals are Mexicans and Mexicans are virtually all Catholics? That doesn't sound rational to me but I can't come up with a good reason.

If the people who are upset by the level of discourse (like this twit who was crying on the phone with Hannity today) or upset by the 'name calling' and 'hysteria' and bothered by those of us who keep using the word AMNESTY can explain to me which piece of legislation that either John McCain or Ted Kennedy has ever authored which was NOT a threat to our democracy, I will be glad to calm down. Until then, I find it incredibly questionable to have my motives called into question for opposing people who routinely seek to destroy the GOP and conservatives.

Your Church absolves your sins after confessing and making penance. The Senate isn't even asking THAT! And if your sin was breaking into the cathedral and stealing the charity money, don't you think your priest would ask for you to return the money in addition to your penance? Or would a few Hail Mary's be acceptable in lieu of the money for the poor?

There are lots of ways to offer amnesty. One is to ask people to fill out paperwork for it and pay for the paperwork. Don't you think the drug dealers, child molesters, tax cheats, mob bosses and pimps would love to get the deal that these illegals are getting and clean their slate for a couple of thousand dollars?

[dixiechick2000]

This is your MO.
I told you that I've been reading your posts.

You ignore those with whom you don't agree.

OR...with those who have nailed you.

You are a slimey individual.

[catholicfreeper]

What? There are many elements of this debate. There are many agendas both good, bad, moderate etc on all sides of this. I really don't know why I should have to respond to you "taking me on" when so far the other posters here have actually got an rational argument so far for what they believe and are staying on the topic of the post.

[dixiechick2000]

No, dear.


You've been "taking us on".

No need to reply to anything else.

I think I have you figured out.
As long as you are polite, you will be welcome.

Though, I don't think it's helps the discourse around here.

[dixiechick2000]

"There are many agendas both good, bad, moderate etc on all sides of this."


The problem with that, is that this used to be a conservative forum.

I guess it's not anymore.

[rlmorel]

Another thing that really pisses me off is the characterization of people who are against unlimited illegal immigration as being racist/bigoted/nativist/insertyourfavorite-ist here or whatever.

I am a firm believer in immigration. Not the type of immigration in the 1965 bill that completely squashed the immigration of skilled workers in favor of unskilled poverty stricken immigrants. I favor immigration that brings people to our country that are going to contribute to society and enter the country to become Americans. These people are what have made our country great since our founding. When I hear that someone has become a legal American Citzen, I seek them out to shake their hand and say welcome.

But when these people get here, they have a different idea. And don't think that image of that bloodthirsty son of a b*tch Che Guevara is meaningless. It speaks volumes about the people who are supporting this mass influx into our country as THEIR RIGHT.

[onyx]

WOW. I am glad I read your comments before I wasted my remarks disagreeing with "The Anchoress."

I'm Catholic and I know that Cardinal Mahoney is a malicious advocate who supports the illegal invasion, and I know of maybe two Catholic posters who favor McCain/Kennedy, but I deplore their bill, and the senate's bill as well.

I have contacted over 100 GOP House members via e-mail and the House must hold strong!

POTUS is dead wrong on this issue and his guest worker plan is filled with loop holes and it's so convoluted to make it impossible to enforce.

Build the fence, put troops on the border, do all the high tech things and FGS, FIRST stop them from invading our country.

[dixiechick2000]

Oh, and...

WELCOME TO FREE REPUBLIC!

[onyx]

I forgot to add, that I am also a Bush-Bot.
So there. :)

[MissAmericanPie]

Read your bible a little more closely. It was God that established nations, borders, and put rulers over them. It began at the Tower of Bible when God determined that it is not in mans best interest to come under a one world dictator.

God created nations, peoples, and languages, some to bless because of their relationship to Him, some to punish for their lack of relationship to Him. A nation is not a nation when it has no borders, and that is the aim of globalists like Bush and his ilk when they talk about border less trade zones.

It's very hard for me not to become exasperated with people who replace scriptures with some sweet enough to give me a toothache, unstudied, pipe dreams of strawberry fields forever.

Globalism seems like a great idea to it's designers and adherents, but the Bible says, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but whose end is destruction". Globalism is just such a "seems right to a man", example of what is described in this passage. And it will end in destruction, unintended, perhaps, but also unavoidable.

[PeoplesRepublicOfWashington]

You forgot the 'Barf Alert' you illegal alien coddler. Coddle them on your own nickel if you must.

[WOSG]

FWIW, I am a Catholic and this is my view on the matter...

Senate sham-nesty bill is the Worst. Bill. Ever.
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/

[David Allen]

The OP is load of malarkey, and should be rebutted on that basis. The REALITY is that our government is showing it intends to make 12-20 million people illegally here citizens. That will change the political dynamic greatly.

Some of us want to hold the line and put a stop to this.

The personal attacks on the OP are annoying, though. Standing up like a pod person, pointing, and yelling TROLL do not make one look wise or noble. IMHO, that's more annoying than dealing with a troll, or one who might be one.

[catholicfreeper]

Well let me say something about the Catholic issue. I assume most are Catholics but maybe not as many as people think. Regardless of the initial faith numbers, the fact that they will migrate to the USA increases the chance that many of them will not remain Catholic unfortunately from my view. The biggest rise in Pentecostal and Evangelical churches have been from migrants and others coming up North. I believe that is one reason why the Southern Baptist Church has indicated that a tough Senate bill would be acceptable. Its not politics but just having more experience in ministering to this group.

I guess one reason some conservative Catholics have taken a view that is close to the President's on this is varied. There is an underlying Theology all inter-playing here. The dignity of the human person, the Theology relating to the Alien etc. Lump this with Catholic's involvement in the pro life movement and its various aspects and it gets complicated.
Also, there is an issue of culpribilty. The illegal Alien that broke the law versus the Society that for 30 years decided to nothing about it and in fact perhaps encouraged it. So I guess there is a Catholic view of justice happening here and proper punishment.
I guess my bright line that I feel I can't cross is making no exceptions or provisions for those that have kids here or American spouses. The morality questions regarding that become troublesome for me. However, I am pretty open to many other things.

Why do I do not view this as Amnesty? Well, they do have to admit guilt. They have to pay fines, taxes etc. They have to keep their nose clean for a period of time. I have heard 11 years in some proposals before they can even apply to be citizens. I really don't care if people want to add more provisions. 1000 hours of community service? I just have to think there is a middle ground less than they having to leave and wait 20 years to get back in and anything short of that is Amnesty. Again, the family issue is what probally drives me most as to this issue.

[catholicfreeper]

But dont you think that there is hope that many of these nonsense provisions(SS Security for one) will be knocked out. I just think that any compromise bill would have to be very tough and would not have many false illusions of enforcement. I can't imagine the House voting on anything that was just a facade as to their biggest concerns. I also think that many in the Senate are expecting that.

[gaussia]

You've been read like a book.