Posted on 04/30/2006 8:33:42 AM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite
Lovely people they were. They liked to put bombs next to bus stops.
It's very brave of these 'freedom fighters' to plant bomb were they are certain of civilian casualties.
The IRA has been operating as a global terror group since at least the 70's. That they have not been declared as such is something I will never understand.
It's something I don't understand, either. I guess they would have to start chanting the Koran before that would happen.
They are getting a soft ride, to Ireland's peril.
Hard to believe, but this is the exact type of butchery that is always overlooked by the RA when they look into the recent past. They are Castro, Sandinista, Qaddafi lovers. Even today, I heard a shinbag (another derogatory term for shinners) on radio praising that nutjob Mugabe, for casting out and standing up to the 'British Opressors'. If only people would listen to Shin Fein, they would see them for what they actually are - bloody communistas.
I'm sorry. I must have missed the part where Mexican citizens were given the legal right to vote in US elections. Aren't the citizens of the 6 counties citizens of Ireland? If I'm mistaken and they are citizens (excuse me, subjects of) another country please correct my mistake.
The island of Ireland is a country, not a nation-state.
Sorry, can't make heads or tails of this one. And I really did try.
A vote must only occur within the borders of NI - it's a recognized entity, whether you agree with it or not.
Apparently not everyone 'recognizes' it. That's the problem. Was there some Law passed that said only the folks in those 6 counties got any say in the matter? Or are the rest of the Irish either too scared or lazy to get involved in what happens on your own island?
By that reasoning, the US should withdraw troops from sovereign Iraq.
When the government of Sovereign Iraq asks us to leave, we will. The President has said that on many occasions. The difference here is that Ireland seems to lack either the courage or the ability to ask its own citizens what they want.
Partition was the only way that a good part of Ireland would be independent
Ahhh. I see. You submitted to blackmail and extortion by the British government. Pity.
you keep ignoring the fact that the Unionists do not wish to be a part of the Republic of Ireland
You keep saying that, but you never submit any evidence for the assertion. I'll continue to say that it's false until you prove otherwise.
The IRA are not political dissidents - they are terrorists
Then catch them, prosecute them, and imprison or execute them yourselves. They may be terrorists, but are they not still Irish citizens? I'll ask that again. Are they not still Irish citizens?
All you IRA supporters have the same broken record
I'm just asking for one or two sourced quotes from one of the 'provos' or whatever you call them proving your assertion. You still haven't supplied any. I'll have to assume you can't mostly because I don't want to assume you're lying.
NI is a political entity with the UK...
Are the 'residents' of the 6 counties Irish or British? Do they carry Irish or British passports when they travel? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. However if they're issued Irish passports, then their Irish citizens and not 'subjects' of the British crown.
It's common sense that trying to unite Ireland by force will cause upheaval.
I'm not talking about using force, you are. I'm talking about using the ballot box.
I don't really care for a united Ireland, - few Irish people do.
Prove it. Put it to a national referendum. Then you'll know whether or not what you assert is true.
Ok, give America back to the Indians!!
We actually did that after a fashion. Indian Reservations are sovereign territory. US and State laws largely do not apply there.
You are not acting like you have no love for the IRA.
And you're either hyper-sensitive or deliberately obtuse. I want the killing to stop on both sides. I'd really like to see Ireland free and united. I can't believe I've had to say that more than once.
Either NI is Irish territory or it's British territory. A simple check of which nation issues Passports for those 6 counties will determine which.
see, you think Britain is not a free society
Britain is not a Free society the way Americans think of a Free society. They have no Bill of Rights and largely no check on the powers of Parliament. There's literally no area of life in which the Parliament is specifically forbidden from putting its nose into.
What's so wrong with killing terrorists?
In principle nothing. However if the terrorist is an American citizen we like to give them a trial. Terry McVeigh got one. Then he got a righteous execution. Zacarias Mossaui is getting one. He's going to get a righteous execution as well. The difference between your way and our way is that you approve of these 'extra jucicial' bits of murder that wouldn't stand up to a moments scrutiny in an American court.
Killing them if they're trying to resist arrest is one thing. Killing them in the middle of an attack is too. But just letting the Brits knock 'em off wholesale is entirely outside the realm of legality.
Like I said. Real countries clean up their own trash.
L
We are dealing with a formidable menace!!
Bertie Ahern needs to be booted from office, before he sells the country out to the IRA!
I don't see what your problem is with NI being part of the UK - afterall the citizens of NI have free election, and are free to form political parties, and participate in elections.
Killing them if they're trying to resist arrest is one thing. Killing them in the middle of an attack is too. But just letting the Brits knock 'em off wholesale is entirely outside the realm of legality.
I also want the Irish government to do the same, and it's fine to do so in a war!!
The British did the same! The Republic of Ireland is a sovereign state!!
Funny thing, but Sovereign states usually have their own armies, police forces, judiciary system, prisons, and the like. NI doesn't seem to have any of these trappings of a 'sovereign state'. Sovereign states also issue silly little things like Passports, drivers licenses, and have Ambassadors to other countries, and other such trappings of sovereignty. Do the 6 counties do any of these things?
So let me see if I have this straight. The Brits invaded Ireland several hundred years ago, slaughtered their armies and declared the whole area subject to the whims of the British crown, killing and imprisoning anyone who resisted.
Then sometime in the fairly recent past the Brits let most of Ireland go, but kept 6 counties and declared them to be 'sovereign'. Is that about right?
See when Americans let a country be sovereign, we do it all the way like we did when we granted independence to the Phillipines. We didn't let 'most' of the Phillipines be free but hang on to 6 or 7 little islands later declaring them to be another, completely new 'sovereign nation' Now they're free to become part of Australia if they want to, assuming the Aussies would have them.
Could the 6 Counties do something like that if they wanted to?
I'm just reminded of another country which did something similar a few years ago. It was South Africa. They declared some tribal lands to be 'sovereign Nations' much the way you describe NI. Funny thing, though. When SA did it the whole world laughed in their faces at the obvious fraud of it all.
I breathlessly await your illuminating responses to my inquiries. Thanks in advance.
L
When exactly did Britain declare War on NI? I'm sure it would have been in all the papers, but I suppose I could have missed it. Can you help me out with a date or the number of the Act of Parliament which did so?
Or is this a Civil War of some kind? Did the 'sovereign government' of NI make a formal request for British troops to quell an insurrection sometime? Why didn't they request troops from Ireland proper? It seems that would make more sense.
L
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. Residents of Northern Ireland who hold a British passport can also obtain an Irish passport, but so can citizens of the US, Australia, or anyone who can show that they or their parents were born anywhere in Ireland. It has no bearing on which government has sovereignty over NI.
Was there some Law passed that said only the folks in those 6 counties got any say in the matter?
The Ango-Irish Agreement, approved by the Irish government, requires a majority vote of NI residents agreeing to NI unification with the Republic of Ireland. So yes, there was a treaty passed stating just that.
And Irish_Thatcherite is quite correct in stating that Unionists do not wish to be a part of the Republic of Ireland. There was a referendum in NI that overwhelmingly rejected unification with the R of I. A substantial number of Catholics as well as Protestants voted to remain part of the UK.
I'm talking about using the ballot box.
Then you'll be relieved to know that the Dail Eireann, composed of elected representatives from the R of I who were overwhelmingly Sinn Fein members, voted to accept the original treaty with Britain in 1921 that established partition.
To be blunt, the Republic of Ireland doesn't want sovereignty over Northern Ireland. It makes no claim to the territory of NI. If NI was united with the R of I, then all the trouble and expense of policing and keeping the raving nutters from each others' throats would be the responsibility of the Irish government and have to be paid for by the R of I taxpayers. If there were a 32-county referendum(which there never will be), the results might surprise you.
Now that I know there's been some kind of actual plebiscite I'm more educated than I was before I hopped onto this thread.
I still don't understand the cheerleading for extra judicial killings of terror suspects, though. That disturbs me. If they're caught in the act or resist arrest, fine. But what's being advocated here strikes me as targetted assasinations of British subjects without the benefit of a trial.
I think anyone would find that disturbing.
Thanks again for the information.
L
Are you also against it for members of Al Quada?
Or is this a Civil War of some kind? Did the 'sovereign government' of NI make a formal request for British troops to quell an insurrection sometime? Why didn't they request troops from Ireland proper? It seems that would make more sense.
You idiot!! I said I want Britain and Ireland to declare war on the IRA and the Loyalist terror groups!!
The United Kingdom is a democracy, plain and simple!!!
The IRA are terrorists, plain and simple!!!
Sure, let's worry about the rights of IRA terrorists!! < /sarcasm >
I'm just reminded of another country which did something similar a few years ago. It was South Africa. They declared some tribal lands to be 'sovereign Nations' much the way you describe NI. Funny thing, though. When SA did it the whole world laughed in their faces at the obvious fraud of it all.
What has Apartied and the Transkei got to do with a democracy like the United Kingdom of Great Britan and Northern Ireland??????
I breathlessly await your illuminating responses to my inquiries. Thanks in advance.
I'm not looking forward to your reply, you smug IRA apologist!!!!!
I dunno lads, they keep turning up to lecture us about our own country!!
And, btw, I'm not a lad, although that's not something that I normally advertise! :)
I think kellyira has been scared off!!
And, btw, I'm not a lad, although that's not something that I normally advertise! :)
Ooops!! Sorry, 'slane' sounds laddish!! :)
No apology necessary - you're right, it does sound laddish - it simply didn't occur to me to announce my sex in my screen name when I chose it!
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