The Great American Job Sellout - Economy In Crisis

www.economyincrisis.org ^ | Sunday, March 19, 2006 | na

[B4Ranch]

I never did figure out how to read that page but I have a hunch it must include corporate holdings.

[ConsentofGoverned]

"So why does the GDP deflator since 1990 turn the gain over the last 6 years to zero?"
>>>>>>>>..................
you are being tiresome..if you do not understand inflation and what it means, your views on much of this debate being economic, are worthless ..nuf said

[ClaireSolt]

Considering demographics it is a wonder that this stubborn bit of ideology has any traction right now. Baby boomers are retiring and cannot be replaced by gen Y, due to population control policies. Unemployment rates are low yet we have a large cohort of illegals somehow working off the books. Unless you want to live in a do-it-yourself nursing home where you have to cook your own food and empty your own bedpan, you'd better get real.

[1rudeboy]

Are you suggesting that more centralized control over our economy will prevent credit-card delinquencies?

[Toddsterpatriot]

but I have a hunch it must include corporate holdings.

Corporate cash would increase the value of stocks held. Totally separate from cash held by individuals, but nice try.

[Toddsterpatriot]

you are being tiresome..if you do not understand inflation and what it means, your views on much of this debate being economic, are worthless ..nuf said

So says the protectionist when his error was pointed out.

[Toddsterpatriot]

No, but they damn well may have a better future!

Why are you protectionists so gloomy about America's future?

[MrPiper]

Why are you protectionists so gloomy about America's future?

Because I expect all the illegals to elect a democratic-socialist administration and Representatives.

[JasonC]

Americans have $6.7 trillion in banks, that is what M2 is.

[JasonC]

Except the 34% raise is just since 2000, not since 1990. Since 1990, nominal income has increased not 34% but 118%, more than double, a total increase of $6.9 trillion per year. The real economy grows 3% every year after inflation, like clockwork. One year in 10 is drops 1-2% instead and the papers have a cow, then it goes back to growing 3% per year real, like clockwork.

[uncitizen]

If outsourcing is of no real consequence, why are American lawyers or their clients paying $2,900 in fees plus hotel and travel expenses and two days billings to attend the Fourth National Conference on Outsourcing in Financial Services in Washington DC (April 20-21)?

I smell a class action suit.

[JasonC]

Taxes increase as the tax base grows, of course. Lower ones would be nice. Lower tax rates still bring higher revenue because they release additional economic growth. Highways are getting a lot more use obviously than 30 years ago, and we spend more on them than we ever have. Who can possibly care? Crime is decreasing, the crime rate is as low as it has been since the mid 1960s. More people go to college than ever before, where liberals stuff their heads full of mush.

You change the subject from economics to areas liberals control and socialists advocate, and pretend it means we aren't richer than ever before or that jobs are disappearing or that ferrners is atakin over, and it is all utter nonsense. Now if you want to abolish tenure, cut taxes, privatize public schools, and keep the good news on crime rates coming with tougher parole and sentencing, every conservative will agree. Without thinking any of it has anything to do with the slightest smidgen of gloom or of doom.

And if you want to worry about something because worry is your life, then worry about Iran getting nuclear weapons and the Europeans appeasing them and Russia helping. Worry about liberals who would sell their grandmother for political power undercutting our brave men in the field. Fine issues where conservatives agree with you and substantial things are actually wrong.

But the economy is fine. It should not be a political issue at all. It has been fine for a generation and it is going to go on being fine for another generation. The last time we had any real economic management issue in this country worthy of political debate was the 1970s, when we needed to regain control of the money supply and end excessively easy Keynsian inspired inflationism. That was all played out in the real economy by the bottom of the 1982 recession, and won in politics with Reagan's tax cuts instead of more monetary juice, plus his re-election in 1984.

The last time before that we had a serious economic issue in this country was under Nixon with the floating of the dollar, related to the aforementioned errors in monetary policy. And before that, there was a real issue with 91% top marginal tax rates, which Kennedy cut. Before that we had a real political issues with economics in designing the post WW II trade regime, and before that with the great depression and responses to it.

But most of the time, the economy has not need whatever for the slightest political intervention or meddling. It does just fine. It has done just fine for over 200 years, transforming a backwater of 3 million poor farmers and fishermen into the world richest and mightest industrial power, and it will go on doing so long after you and I are fertilizing the daisies. In utter contempt of politicians and ideology.

Socialist ideology insanely politicized all economic questions in the late 19th and throughout the 20th century. That is over. It was all nonsense. Politicians seeking to pit class against class, stoke fear and resentment, and win votes by pretending they can change economic outcomes, refuse to give up their hobbyhorse. That is all. There is no burning political issue or fight about anything economic today. Nor should there be, because the economy is fine and we are the richest and most pampered people in world history. We just whine like collosal crybabies all the time, too.

[B4Ranch]

I will pray that you are right and I am wrong.

[texastoo]

"Why are you protectionists so gloomy about America's future?"

I really don't like tribunals, ministers and closed door meeting that you free traders have insisted on. I think it is all unAmerican. The following mess is from your official NAFTA website.

Obligations under the NAALC

Levels of Protection: Affirming full respect for each Party's constitution, each Party shall ensure that its labor laws and regulations provide for high labor standards, consistent with high quality and high productivity workplaces, and shall continue to strive to improve those standards in that light.

Government Enforcement Action: Each Party shall promote compliance with and effectively enforce its labor law through appropriate government action. Each Party shall ensure that its competent authorities give due consideration to any request for an investigation of an alleged violation of the Party's labor law.

Private Action: Each Party shall ensure that persons with a legally recognized interest in a particular matter have appropriate access to tribunals for the enforcement of the Party's labor law. Each Party's law shall ensure that such persons may have recourse to procedures by which rights arising under its labor law and collective agreements can be enforced.

Procedural Guarantees: Each Party shall ensure that its proceedings for the enforcement of its labor law are fair, equitable and transparent. Each Party shall provide that final decisions on the merits of the case are in writing, made available without undue delay and based on information or evidence. Each Party shall provide the right to seek review and correction of final decisions. Each Party shall ensure that tribunals are impartial and independent. Each Party shall provide remedies to ensure the enforcement of their labor rights. Each Party may, as appropriate, adopt or maintain labor defense offices to represent or advise workers or their organizations.

Publication: Each Party shall ensure that its laws, regulations, procedures and administrative rulings are promptly published or otherwise made available.

Public Information and Awareness: Each Party shall promote public awareness of its labor law by ensuring that public information is available and by promoting public education.


Labor Principles of the NAALC

Freedom of association and protection of the right to organize.

The right to bargain collectively.

The right to strike.

Prohibition of forced labor.

Labor protections for children and young persons.

Minimum employment standards.

Elimination of employment discrimination.

Equal pay for women and men.

Prevention of occupational injuries and illnesses.

Compensation in cases of occupational injuries and illnesses.

Protection of migrant workers.

[Mad Dawgg]

"but I have a hunch it must include corporate holdings."

Hmm corporate holdings you mean like AEP and JPMORGAN and PEPSICO and such? Yeah that is terrible all those mean ass Corporations having all that money. OH wait those corporations are owned by people like me who get dividends from those corporate holdings.

But I hear all is bad from folks like you who demand higher wages because by gawd you are an American and deserve it.

Of course my pappy and grand pappy taught me many years ago it is not how much you are paid, it is what you do with it that counts. Too bad most Americans have never learned that lesson, then we wouldn't need you socialist types yelling for someone to pay you more because you want it.

[ConsentofGoverned]

"then we wouldn't need you socialist types yelling for someone to pay you more because you want it."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...................
missing the point again..you think those here opposed to Free Trade want to be paid more?? NO what we see is the slide to the very socialism you do not want..take a deep breath and read the post and try to understand..Free trade does not exist- slaves are here in America today as Illegals who are exploited every which way to sunday.
The continued march towards regulated economies governed by non elected elites is what we fear..The globalist by definition want a weak USA..wake up you are mixed up as to what we are saying and you are promoting the very thing that will force socialism on US. We Stand for a STRONG INDEPENDENT AMERICA..with free markets within our borders
not give aways to socialist countries across the world.
YOu free trade globalist are the ones for a WEAK America..and it seems you are too stupid to comprehend the fruit of this globalist jihad.

[JasonC]

Pray all you like, but be sure to bet some too. That way you too will benefit.

[Mad Dawgg]

"We Stand for a STRONG INDEPENDENT AMERICA..with free markets within our borders not give aways to socialist countries across the world."

No you stand with the Socialist Unions who want the government to regulate everything and set wages high, the very antithesis of a strong economy and a strong nation.

What you are advocating has been tried in Europe, ask the French or the Germans how well it is working to make their nations strong.

Your type has Doom and Gloomed us all ever since NAFTA was voted in yet the economy is stronger than ever and the standard of living is better than anytime in this Nation's history.

Sorry we have heard your tripe and none are buying save for the Union/Socialist types who are being driven out of their little fiefdoms.

[Old_Mil]

And yet, since 2001, our household net worth has gone from $40.7 trillion to $52.1 trillion. So much for Paul and his zero sum economics.

Rework those numbers without including "home equity" for a more realistic assessment of where we stand.

[Toddsterpatriot]

And yet, since 2001, our household net worth has gone from $40.7 trillion to $52.1 trillion. So much for Paul and his zero sum economics.

Rework those numbers without including "home equity" for a more realistic assessment of where we stand.

Home equity was $7.269 trillion in 2001 and $11.157 trillion in 2005. Does that help you with your gloomy outlook?