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OUR TROOPS UNMET NEEDS or after 40 years the DoD Inspector General will look in to the crappy M-16.
M & C News ^ | Jan 10, 2006 | Winslow T. Wheeler

Posted on 01/11/2006 7:09:45 PM PST by undocumentedrat

WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- Many in Congress and the Pentagon boast American troops have the best equipment in the world. But reports from the battlefields in Iraq and Afghanistan say otherwise. The information about the failures is not new; solutions are long overdue. Some of the most worrying questions center on the efficacy and lethality of the firearms U.S. forces are using. Official reports show high levels of dissatisfaction with the M-4 carbine, M16 rifle magazines, and M249 machine gun. The small size of the 5.56mm bullet used in these weapons is also highly controversial among some troops. But problems with weaponry are just a subset of the larger issue: equipment that is not up to scratch. Reports from the Army`s Natick Soldier Center, its Tank-automotive and Armaments Command, and the Marine`s Systems Command Liaison Team in Iraq -- all from 2002 and 2003 -- tell us, for example, troops` 'dislikes.' Among those dislikes: uniforms that rip easily, eyewear that fogs up and fits poorly under helmets, and boots that blister, crack, and burst, and are 'poor for movement,' or as in one soldier`s e-mail are 'truly awful and also painful.' Troops buy some equipment with their own money, usually because government issue performs poorly. Such items include gloves, socks, flashlights, padding for backpacks, 'CamelBak' hydration systems, and weapons cleaning equipment. Banal items? Perhaps to us back home, but certainly not for soldiers fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan and the desert of Iraq, doing whatever it takes to keep their bodies and their weapons working. continue ->

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

KEYWORDS: 556; army; bang; banglist; m16; m4; marines
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To: Natural Law

Actually, the gailil uses the firing mech from the AKM, and various parts of the Valmont from Finland and the Armorlite.

101 posted on 01/13/2006 9:47:46 AM PST by Perdogg ("Facts are stupid things." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: Perdogg

Yeah, but the IDF wasn't buying the FN FAL from Galil.

102 posted on 01/13/2006 9:56:30 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Perdogg
Actually, the gailil uses the firing mech from the AKM, and various parts of the Valmont from Finland and the Armorlite.

Actually, the milled-receiver Galil and short version Glilon use the milled receiver of the Finnish M62 Valmet. Uzi Gal's first prototypes literally used Finnish M62 Kalishnikov copy receivers as their primary component, combined with modified Colt light machinegun barrels and the improved magazine of Eugene Stoner's XM23/Stoner 63 5,56mm assault rifle/LMG system.

Accordingly the innards of the Galil, with which I'm VERY familiar, are interchangable with the earlier milled receiver *second Pattern* AK47, but NOT the AKM. I found this out to my complete satisfaction when I combined the innards of a North Korean Vietnam War souvenir whose barrel had been ruined by a lack of maintenance following the firing of around 2000 rounds of various AK tracer ammo and was therefore stripped of components that were then assembled onto a Finnish M62 receiver, the buttstock mounting being the most incompatable arrangement of the swap. A few years later I obtained a war-weary Galil that had taken a 7.62 Nato round through its receiver, and most of its components were transposed onto the Galil receiver, 5.56mm ammo and Galil magazines then being more easily available to me. Neither rework was particularly difficult, and the legendary AK reliability remained unchanged through allthe did the usual AK mediocre accuracy.

103 posted on 01/13/2006 10:16:00 AM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Who is John Galt?
OK, so that means that (IIRC), according to your "production volume" criterion, that the 'second best' "western self loading rifle" might be the M-1 carbine (6.5 million copies produced)? That's the M-1 carbine, AKA the reincarnated, unsuccessful, .32 Winchester Selfloading, not-good-for-much-of-anything, what-cha-ya-ma-call-it?

(Not that I'm volunteering to get pasted by a .30 Carbine SP or HP round - NYPD detectives and other US cops apparently swear by the things... ;>)

True enough, so far as light/short barrelled [16 inch or less] carbines go. I'd certainly prefer an M1/M2 carbine to virtually any 9mm SMG or machinepistol, including the much-praised H&K MP5 buzzgun. Among those who agree are the Israeli Mishmar HaEzrachi civil guard/ police auxilliary, who use the carbine in both full stock and folder version variants in their daily duties, though there are certainly plenty of older M16A1 rifles and Uzi SMGs around for such purposes if it was believed they were the best pick for the job. Likewise the Israeli kibbutz I visited in '82 had 20 carbines in their armoury, the first weapons to be chosen by those heading out on night watchman duties.

Too, during my studious tour of the spas and cathouses of exotic Southeast Asia from 1968 to 1970, I ran across more than a few folks who most certainly preferred the .30 carbine for their personal defense to the shorty M16 version XM177E2 then available. Availability was certainly one reason, and the limitation of the 20-round M16 magazine was another. But the carbine was and is still popular with those who go in harm's way and have any sort of choice about what they'll have in hand when the bell rings.

The real shortcoming of the M1/M2 carbine is the 110-grain G.I. ball ammunition, and results with Winchester hollow point or Federal soft point loadings usually offer mush more effective results; I'm particularly grateful that the fella who shot me with one in 1977 was using French GI ball ammo and that he'd sawed the barrel down about flush with the foreend. Similarly, on 12 August 1967 a Tennessee sheriff and his wife were ambushed by four hoods in a stolen Cadillac on a back-country road, resulting in the death of the sheriff's wife, the ruination of the sheriff's face, and an eventual saga of ruin for those involved in the attempted assination that culminated in a string of *Walking Tall* movies. So far as I'm aware, the stolen Memphis police carbine that was used by the gunman was never recovered, but of those involved who eventually fell to gunfire, only one was killed with a rifle.

What's really needed: for design engineer Tom Burzinski, who gave us the effective Winchester Black Talon, PMC StarFire and Remington Golden Saber hollowpoint bullet designs, to work up something equally useful for the .30 Carbine.

104 posted on 01/13/2006 10:48:49 AM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: archy
I had read that some of the Hmong walked out of South Vietnem when the communists swamped the place. When they arrived in Thailand (months later, IIRC), the only functioning firearms they had with them were M-1/M-2 carbines. Apparently the AKs and ARs they had also started with didn't survive the 'hike'...


(By the way, thank you for putting together a great FR homepage! ;>)

105 posted on 01/13/2006 2:25:04 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ("He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike." - John Locke, 1690)
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To: AlaninSA; Captain Ray
And we can replace the M9 popgun next... Bring back the M1911...

If you don't have a 1911 you're a &%^$#$$! Ping
106 posted on 03/16/2006 4:51:16 PM PST by Tailback (USAF distinguished rifleman badge #300, German Schutzenschnur in Gold)
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To: Tailback
"If you don't have a 1911 you're a &%^$#$$!"

Good Lord! There's one in every crowd!!! ;^]

I can shoot the eyes out of an English hare from 600 meters with my SKS! (of course I tricked it out with some rusty steel sights, and wooden stock I whittled out of some Port Orford Cedar with my buck-knife.. Try that with your little m1911 HOT SHOT!! LOL,


107 posted on 03/16/2006 9:24:21 PM PST by Captain Ray
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