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The Libby Indictment
The Judge Report ^ | 10/28/05 | Robert N. Going

Posted on 10/28/2005 7:49:53 PM PDT by Cincinnatus

Though I have never worked in a federal prosecutor's office, I have been an Assistant District Attorney and have presented cases to Grand Juries and have many years experience as a Criminal Court Judge at all levels, and as a defense counsel.

I have been analyzing the "Scooter" Libby indictment and I must say I don't see much there there.  Without all the underlying evidence and testimony, of course,  it's always hard to judge the strength of an indictment, but what I see thus far is not too impressive.

First, the whole thing seems to rest on what exactly Libby said to Tim Russert of NBC and Matthew Cooper of Time Magazine. The principal discrepancy is essentially whether Russert told Libby that the reporters all knew that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.  The indictment says that statement is not true, so we must presume that Russert says that he didn't say that.  Libby says he did, or at least told the FBI and the Grand Jury that.

When he spoke with Matthew Cooper a couple of days later, Libby says he told him that reporters had said she worked for the CIA. Cooper, it seems, denies that part. It is claimed that Libby unequivocally said he had heard that she works at the CIA, too.  (I'll discuss the Cooper part in a later post).

So let's ignore the he said/he said for a moment.  I want to show you why judging and analyzing testimony can be really difficult.

On television, it's all crystal clear: a coherent, unambiguous question, followed by an answer in complete sentences with subjects, verbs and objects all neatly in a row and chronologically presented, with absolutely no doubt about antecedents of pronouns.  In the real world, as I learned daily in my sixteen years on the bench, it can often look like this:

. . . . And then he said, you know, did you know that this - excuse me, did you know that Ambassador Wilson's wife works at the CIA? And I was a little taken aback by that. I remember being taken aback by it. And I said - he may have said a little more but that was - he said that. And I said, no, I don't know that. And I said, no, I don't know that intentionally because I didn't want him to take anything I was saying as in anyway confirming what he said, because at that point in time I did not recall that I had ever known, and I thought this is something that he was telling me that I was first learning. And so I said, no. I don't know that because I want to be very careful not to confirm it for him, so that he didn't take my statement, as confirmation for him.

Now, I had said earlier in the conversation, which I omitted to tell you, that this - you know, as always, Tim, our discussion is off-the-record if that's okay with you, and he said, that's fine.

So then he said — I said— he said. sorry — he. Mr. Russert said to me, did you know that Ambassador Wilson''s wife, or his wife, works at the CIA?  And  I said, no. I don't know that. And then he said, yeah—yes, all the reporters know it. And I said, again, I don't know that. I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't confirming anything for him on this. And you know, I was struck by what he was saying in that he thought it was an important fact, but I didn't ask him anymore about it because I didn't want to be digging in on him, and he then moved on and finished the conversation, something like that.

Now, the indictment thinks that this is a clear statement of Libby that he first learned that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent from Tim Russert. Is that what he's saying? Maybe.  If you only read the first paragraph (and paragraphs are only a court reporter's convention) it might sound like that.  But then he stops, backs up in time, sorts things out loud, thinks ahead, falls back, finally finishes off with "something like that."

So, was it the fact that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent that startled him, or was it the fact that all the reporters seemed to know she was a CIA agent that startled him?  Or that Russert would think it was important that she was a CIA agent?

The very next question from the Special Prosecutor should have been:

Q. So you are saying that you first learned that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent from Tim Russert of NBC? A. Yes, that is my best recollection at this point in time.
But if such a Q&A exists, I rather think it would have appeared in the indictment in place of the section quoted above.

The indictment itself lists the following as a matter "material to the Grand Jury Investigation":

i. When, and the manner and means by which, defendant LIBBY learned that Wilson's wife was employed by the CIA
If they don't have any better quotes from Libby, they will have serious problems with most, if not all, of the charges.


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: libby; plame; russert; scooterlibby; valerieplame
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1 posted on 10/28/2005 7:49:54 PM PDT by Cincinnatus
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To: Cincinnatus

Fi(sh)tzerman was shaky today in his presser.

I don't thinks he's quite the legal mind we've been told he is by the MSM.

Libby's lawyers could probably make this into an indictment of Fi(sh)tzerman if they are so inclined.


2 posted on 10/28/2005 7:53:00 PM PDT by Carling (http://www.marriedadults.com/howarddeanscreamaudio141jq.mp3)
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To: Cincinnatus

There will be no trial.


3 posted on 10/28/2005 7:53:53 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Free choice is not what it seems)
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To: Cincinnatus

I look forward to Libby being acquitted. And Frist. And The Hammer. I really look forward to the day Americans wake up and realize trumped up charges and the politics of personal destruction are all the Democrats have to offer


4 posted on 10/28/2005 7:56:35 PM PDT by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: Carling

Heard him on the radio. There's something wrong about that boy. I read the indictment. Could have been written by George Soros.


5 posted on 10/28/2005 7:57:20 PM PDT by maro
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To: maro

Yep. This guy makes David Boise look like a legal genius.


6 posted on 10/28/2005 8:05:58 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Eternity? Smoking or nonsmoking?)
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To: Carling
I don't thinks he's quite the legal mind we've been told he is by the MSM.

I've asked myself is Fitz really this stupid?

Maybe he has coldly calculated a backhanded way to get the liberal Press people and Joe Wilson subpoenaed for trial to uncover the truth?

On second thought...Naaaah. He probably wants to get toasted at liberal cocktail parties for life.

7 posted on 10/28/2005 8:06:50 PM PDT by demlosers
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To: Cincinnatus
The way I read the Libby quote is that Russert asked about Wilson's wife and Libby sort of sloughed it off. Not because he had never heard it, but because he didn't want to confirm it to Russert.

That's what so hard about this charge- is it based on lies to the Grand Jury, or lies that he made to a reporter?

8 posted on 10/28/2005 8:15:06 PM PDT by TravisBickle
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To: TravisBickle
That's what so hard about this charge- is it based on lies to the Grand Jury, or lies that he made to a reporter?

That's part of what makes the quote so confusing. Libby is clearly saying he wasn't doing anything to confirm the statement, but I think it can be read in such a way that he's NOT saying he didn't know that Plame was CIA at the time of the conversation, which is the opposite of what the indictment says. I was once on the stand for 14 hours over two days. You can sound a lot incoherent after a while!

9 posted on 10/28/2005 8:26:27 PM PDT by Cincinnatus
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To: saganite

Again attacking the Democrats for a single man's inequity. First of all the Special Investigation was ordered by the White House as well the Special Prosecutor was appointed by it. So, to blame the Democrats for Libby's indictment is ignorant. Secondly, the Demon-c-Rats are all giggling like schoolgirls at a fourth grade dance with giddy excitement about these trumped up charges that will most probably be thrown out of court by any judge with common sense. Lastly, let's (Republicans and Conservatives) focus on the issues that face this country and do all we can to solve present problems rather than throw silly accusations back at a bunch of ignorant politicos.


10 posted on 10/28/2005 9:31:56 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Cincinnatus

Maybe, if this goes to trial, he can baffle the jury with passages such as that and they'll acquite him out of sympathy.


11 posted on 10/28/2005 9:33:48 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Cincinnatus

Is this really testimony by Libby?


12 posted on 10/28/2005 9:40:18 PM PDT by Jrabbit (Kaufman County, Texas)
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To: demlosers

nah...hes not stupid...somebody got to him..any guesses as to who???I have a good idea who....can you say hillary???


13 posted on 10/28/2005 9:43:48 PM PDT by justkillingtime
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To: Cincinnatus
The thing is, Russert is saying he never even talked to him about Plame. If it comes down to believing Scooter or believing Russert, Scooter is going to win.

As to Fitzgerald, he was so intent on finding a flea he completely ignored the elephant sitting on his lap. What a disappointment.

14 posted on 10/28/2005 9:46:41 PM PDT by McGavin999 (We're a First World Country with a Third World Press (Except for Hume & Garrett ))
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To: maro

I too listened to Fitz on the radio and he sounded demonic and possessed.


15 posted on 10/28/2005 10:19:11 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy
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To: McGavin999

He didn't even call Plame to the Grand Jury!!!!!!! He probably didn't even ASK Tenet if she was COVERT in that time period!!! He is a Democrat HACK!!


16 posted on 10/28/2005 10:21:56 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy
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To: Cincinnatus

If and when Mr. Libby is sentenced, I think he should calibrate the entire imbroglio with, "I did not sleep with that woman."


17 posted on 10/29/2005 5:09:21 AM PDT by RunningJoke
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To: Jrabbit
Is this really testimony by Libby?

Yes, this is the actual (entire) quote that is the basis for half the indictment.

18 posted on 10/29/2005 6:46:06 AM PDT by Cincinnatus
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To: phoenix0468

Whatever


19 posted on 10/29/2005 6:52:16 AM PDT by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: Suzy Quzy
He didn't even call Plame to the Grand Jury!!!!!!! He probably didn't even ASK Tenet if she was COVERT in that time period!!! He is a Democrat HACK!!

And he didn't bother talking to Plame's neighbors till a couple of days ago.

20 posted on 10/29/2005 7:03:55 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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