Replies

>>I think the difficulty some of us have is that we feel we are being beaten with a Bible.<<

Sorry if the words of the Living God upset your delicate sensibilities, but watering down Holy Scripture because it makes people "feeeeeeeeel bad" is what got us into a lot of these messes in the first place.

>>There is such anger and shrillness that it is hard to see the love of Jesus underneath.<<

You're confusing anger and "shrillness" with a stern rebuke. Again, another by-product of weak Biblical exhortation and liberal theology.

>>But I also feel very alienated by what I take to be a self-rightiousness which won't dicuss or teach, but will only scream and yell.<<

You, ma'am were the one who refused to answer pointed questions regarding the basis of your faith. You, ma'am were the one who told both pageonetoo and I to "leave you alone" when we asked you some pretty simple questions regarding your spiritual foundation. You, ma'am were also the one joking with EveningStar about us, so don't try playing the "Harmless Wounded Flower" bit.

Jesus Himself spoke more of hell and the need for repentance than he did of love. His first sermon was to repent and be baptized, for the Kingdom of God is at hand. It wasn't , "Let's sit and discuss this naughty thing you're doing."

Many on the liberal side of faith envision God as a kindly old Grandfather, or at worst, a non-judgemental nagging girlfriend. Many refuse to see Him as the Holy, Just, Righteous, and Sovereign creator of the Universe that He is. God's wrath and rebuking judgement on the sinful and unsaved is something that you won't find on too many Church marquees these days, but it needs to be there.

>> suggest everyone take a breath and say a prayer for the girl, the two women raising her and the school officials.<<

Depends on your manner of prayer. It would seem that several here would pray for salvation and a conviction of sin, while others would pray for deliverance from the "big mean judgemental bigots".

Pa mom raises a decent point, namely that if the School's action was a consequence of Christian Crusaderism vice an administrative decision, then the school probably acted prematurely.

In defense of the school's decision, though, some administrators I've heard from regarding the toughest decisions and problems they encounter are in regards to parents who bring their children into the institution and then expect they can change the institution into a secular humanist organization. The same school administration has to master the myriad of challenges already presented by governmental school systems which adamently oppose anything with a Christian basis. Funding, textbook selection, accreditation, curricula, and teacher certification are only a few of the hurdles they encounter.

Especially when dealing with 14-year olds, where problems can multiply exponentially if left unmitigated, the school might simply adopt the opposite 'no tolerance' policy to homosexuality.

It's probably best left to those administering the school and those to whom they are accountable for appropriate review.

I think the difficulty some of us have is that we feel we are being beaten with a Bible.

I am sorry if you feel we are berating anyone. The majority of FReepers are Christian, I daresay, and most will disagree on any point, so what? In this case, it is simple. The church makes the rules. You don't have to like them, nor send your kids there. You don't even need to know who they are. But, if you are Christian, you should accept their faith in God.

I disagree with many folks here. Am I wrong, and everyone esle right. Sometimes, maybe. Sometimes, maybe not. But, I still have no problem sharing the cup with them, as believers. It is up to God to judge our hearts.

But, the church has not abrogating its rights. They are being stripped from them, by liberals, and bleeding hearts, who have no concept of holiness. They are Sunday-go-to-meeting kinda Christians, that want to live a lifestyle, in contradiction to God's requirements.

I am not without sin. I can't help it. I was born that way. I will die that way. But, thank God, for His promise to cleanse me, and make me Holy. It is a process of time, and faith. I stumble daily. He picks me back up, dusts off my bottom, and sets my feet back on the path.

We don't get the choice to give in to our feelings. We are solely saved by faith. Adam ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, a forbidden tree. Eve handed it to him. Satan convinced her by getting her to deny God, "surely you will not die..." They were both cast into the wilderness. "But, God so loved the world"...

I do not think any Christian should feel "beaten" when confronted with Scripture. Paul said that Scripture is God breathed, in his second letter to Timothy, and is intended for insruction in righteousness. His letters were applicable for all Christians, not just Timothy!

2 Timothy 2:1-15-

1You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others. 3Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer. 5Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules. 6The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. 7Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.

8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God's word is not chained. 10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

11Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,

we will also live with him;

12if we endure,

we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,

he will also disown us;

13if we are faithless,

he will remain faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Tim 3:10-16

10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.