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Boortz and Lidner's Fair Tax - Could it Happen Here?
TPM Cafe ^ | 8/23/05 | Chris Fonzone

Posted on 08/24/2005 8:27:44 PM PDT by Man50D

Imaginative director Terry Gilliam recently released his long-awaited epic The Brothers Grimm, starring Matt Damon and Heath Ledger. After well over a month, Neil Boortz and Representative John Linder’s The Fair Tax Book still resides in the top 10 on Amazon.com’s best-seller list.

It is difficult to tell whether the book or the movie is the bigger fairy tale.

Aug 23, 2005 -- 09:07:50 PM EST

The premise behind the “Fair” Tax is simple – shockingly so. The income tax should be disbanded (as should the IRS) and replaced with a 23% consumption tax on all retail purchases. The authors contend that this change will be revenue neutral, although they clearly intimate that they would prefer (maybe in the future) massive tax cuts of the “drown your government in a bathtub” variety.

Serious tax policy being dictated by a talk show host . . . sounds implausible, doesn’t it? Well, whether it is or not, there are a lot of people who are taking this very seriously. There’s a bill circling Congress in support of the “Fair Tax” with several notable supporters, including Dennis Hastert and Tom Delay. As this TPMCafe post details, letters to the editor are starting to appear in favor of the plan. And, as mentioned above, the book is a runaway Amazon bestseller, with hundreds of favorable reviews. During the last election, President Bush even voiced a willingness to consider the bill, before pulling back on his comments after a groundswell of opposition.

The popular support should not be surprising - it’s easy to criticize the IRS in order to make friends (and win votes). Boortz and Linder even have a valid point: the tax code does need to be reformed; at the very least, its too confusing and too easy to cheat. (For an excellent book on where we really should start reforming the tax code, check out David Cay Johnston’s Perfectly Legal.)

The fact that the plan is gaining momentum does not make it a legitimate option, however. There is plenty of room to question Boortz and Linder’s claims: the book is a ill-supported bromide that ignores unfavorable arguments and considers the necessary data optional, at best. And, even taking the proposal at face value, it is clear that the Fair Tax reflects the business interests that financed its creation and are pushing its adoption. It’s hardly surprising that the proposal is aggressively regressive and definitely not a change that will be beneficial to people who must spend a large portion of their income to live (read: middle and lower class Americans).

Given this, we here at The Warren Reports think it is important to get the word out about this plan. Over the next couple of weeks, we’re going to take a much closer look at Boortz and Linder’s Fair Tax Book, with at least three more posts planned: one on the impact the tax will have on Middle Class Americans (is it regressive?), one on our concerns with the empirical data and consistency of the argument in the book, and a final post on issues ignored in the book (e.g. transition costs). Our hope is that we can both point out the problems with the “Fair” Tax plan and stimulate a discussion on real tax reform – tax reform that benefits all Americans, not just the political donor class.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: aintgonnahappen; drinkthatkoolaid; fairtaxisnt; flattax; giveitup; gotflattax; koolaiddrinkers; onlyflattaxisfairtax
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Over the next couple of weeks, we’re going to take a much closer look at Boortz and Linder’s Fair Tax Book, with at least three more posts planned:

The Fair Tax is generating more discussion!
1 posted on 08/24/2005 8:27:45 PM PDT by Man50D
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To: ancient_geezer; Taxman; pigdog; Principled; EternalVigilance; PhilWill; kevkrom; n-tres-ted; ...

Ping


2 posted on 08/24/2005 8:29:10 PM PDT by Man50D
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To: Man50D

Is there a country anywhere that has a similar system (Fair Tax) and if so, does it work? Aren't the countries that have Flat Taxes doing well?


3 posted on 08/24/2005 8:34:25 PM PDT by msnimje
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To: pigdog; Always Right

ping!


4 posted on 08/24/2005 8:38:00 PM PDT by Stellar Dendrite ( Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. -Churchill)
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To: Man50D
a 23% consumption tax on all retail purchases

What's considered retail? If I buy a widget at Circus City and use the widget to make a do-dad that I sell at retail, do I pay the tax on the widget ? If so, isn't this just a modified VAT ?
5 posted on 08/24/2005 8:38:13 PM PDT by stylin19a (In golf, some are long, I'm "Lama Long")
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To: Man50D
I am very wary of the "Fair Tax" and the giant new agency that would have to distribute the rebates.

However I have long been a proponent of the Flat Tax as described by Steve Forbes.
6 posted on 08/24/2005 8:39:10 PM PDT by RWR8189 ( Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: Man50D

Will never happen. Countries with flat tax are doing great and generally running surpluses. Neither the fair tax or the flat tax will ever happen here although it would be great if it were to come to pass.


7 posted on 08/24/2005 8:40:57 PM PDT by spyone
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To: Man50D

I think I know who Boortz is, but who's Lidner?


8 posted on 08/24/2005 8:43:02 PM PDT by Xenalyte (Lord, I apologize . . . and be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea amen.)
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To: stylin19a
That would be classified as a business to business purchase. Business to business purchases would not be taxed. See http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/faq-main.html#1 for more information.
9 posted on 08/24/2005 8:45:21 PM PDT by Man50D
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To: Man50D

The flat tax will not stop the states from putting their hands on you with their own state income taxes. This will only change the federal tax system.


10 posted on 08/24/2005 8:47:01 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: RWR8189
I am very wary of the "Fair Tax" and the giant new agency that would have to distribute the rebates.

However I have long been a proponent of the Flat Tax as described by Steve Forbes.


Ditto! Exactly! Right on!

Two of the main reasons for changing the tax code is to lower the cost of doing business and simplying the process. If the government is still required to carry a large bureaucracy (a new form of the IRS) for calculating and diistributing rebates, then not much will have changed as far saving money and simplying the government process..
11 posted on 08/24/2005 8:47:49 PM PDT by adorno
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To: Man50D

thanx....


12 posted on 08/24/2005 8:49:36 PM PDT by stylin19a (In golf, some are long, I'm "Lama Long")
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To: RWR8189
I am very wary of the "Fair Tax" and the giant new agency that would have to distribute the rebates.

The Fair Tax would eliminate the giant agency we have now called the IRS. The Treasury department would collect taxes from the states, who in turn collect it from the retailers. See http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/faq-main.html#10 for more information.
13 posted on 08/24/2005 8:49:58 PM PDT by Man50D
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To: Xenalyte

Republican congressman from Georgia


14 posted on 08/24/2005 8:55:56 PM PDT by junaid
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To: Xenalyte
I think I know who Boortz is, but who's Lidner?

The last name is misspelled. It is Linder. Congressman John Linder(GA) is the Sponsor of H.R. 25 (Fair Tax Act) and co-wrote "The Fair Tax Book" with Neal Boortz.
15 posted on 08/24/2005 9:04:28 PM PDT by Man50D
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To: Man50D
Yeah but if you have a flat tax, how are the politians going to control your behavior? I don't think they'll want to give that up!
16 posted on 08/24/2005 9:05:30 PM PDT by HannagansBride
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To: Man50D
The Fair Tax would eliminate the giant agency we have now called the IRS. The Treasury department would collect taxes from the states, who in turn collect it from the retailers.

And, as I understand it, the Social Security Admin, which already has an excellent system for mailing or direct depositing Social Security check each month would be in charge of mailing the pre-bate checks each month.

17 posted on 08/24/2005 9:08:11 PM PDT by upchuck ("If our nation be destroyed, it would be from the judiciary." ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: HannagansBride
Yeah but if you have a flat tax, how are the politician's going to control your behavior? I don't think they'll want to give that up!

You're right. They won't just give it up. That's why people need to contact their Senators and Representatives to let them know what the Fair Tax is about and urge them to support it.
18 posted on 08/24/2005 9:15:04 PM PDT by Man50D
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To: RWR8189
"However I have long been a proponent of the Flat Tax as described by Steve Forbes."

Agree; and logically. . .reasonably; it makes the best cents - in a manner of speaking;

. . .so I do not understand why the 'Forbe's formula' for tax reform is not looked at more seriously.

It just does not have the 'appeal' apparently, of the 'tax the rich' MO; which underscores the 'consumption tax'.

19 posted on 08/24/2005 9:21:05 PM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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To: RWR8189; cricket

disregard multiple ' '. Yikes - nothing like 'overkill'. . . :^)


20 posted on 08/24/2005 9:25:18 PM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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