Posted on 07/31/2005 1:19:25 PM PDT by KMB
For the past 20 years, there's been a discussion in political circles and the media about the "fault lines" in the Republican party over the hot-button social issues such as the death penalty, abortion, affirmative action and gay rights.
The presumption has always been that these issues would ultimately cause a rift between conservatives and moderates that would split the Republican coalition. The pundits and the MSM have been expecting and predicting this split for as long as I've been watching politics and they've been puzzled by the fact that it has never occurred.
I believe that the reason that it hasn't occurred is that the underlying assumptions are wrong. There are no "moderate" Republicans. I think Republicans are almost all conservative. Today, there are no Republicans left who are philosophically in line with Nelson Rockefeller, John Anderson, Lowell Weicker or Mark Hatfield. I know that this line of reasoning may be challenged by the Maine & Rhode Island Republican senators but the Republicans in those states (who vote Republican in presidential elections) are conservatives. The New England Republican Senators get elected by appealing to Democrats in overwhelmingly Democratic states.
There were approximately 62 million people who voted for GW Bush in 2004. I believe that probably 61.5 million of those people (1) support the death penalty (2) oppose affirmative action and (3) oppose gay marriage. I also believe that an equally high percentage of Bush voters (even those who are pro-choice) believe that the Roe v. Wade case was a hideous decision.
Pro-choice Republicans also are aware of the dirty little secret of the abortion debate -- which is that even if Roe v. Wade were overturned tomorrow, there would probably be no effect... There are probably no more than 7 - 9 states where abortion would actually be outlawed and there are currently few (or no) abortion doctors practicing in those states today anyway. Overall, the number of abortions occurring in the next ten years would only be affected by 1% or less if Roe v. Wade were reversed.
So this is, I believe, why the Republican coalition never cracked or splintered. It has confounded and infuriated the opposition but the Republican coalition really never had the fault lines that so many people thought it had.
However, I now think that one may be developing. The impending divisions in the Republican party won't be "moderate" vs. "conservative". It will be "evangelical conservative" vs. "non evangelical conservative". The issues that cause the breach won't be abortion, the death penalty, gay marriage or affirmative action. Instead the divisions will be caused over: (1) stem cell research, (2) evolution and (3) the Terri Schiavo case.
I think that 25 years from now, we'll all look back on the Terri Schiavo case as a cataclysmic event in American politics. There were tens of millions of people who looked at the pictures of Terri Schiavo and thought just one thing: "My god, if that ever happens to me, pull the plug, stop the feeding or do whatever it takes to finish me off."
At the time many Republican leaders spoke of the fact that this was a unique case but the tone of the debate both in and out of the media was that this was essentially a first step.
I remember that pro-Brady Bill and pro-Assault weapons ban politicians repeatedly assured the public that this wouldn't mean banning guns while activists and media pundits indicated that this was a first step towards doing so.
With the Terri Schiavo case, activists -- evangelicals --similarly didn't view this as a unique case but as a first step towards preventing feeding tube or life support removal in any case regardless of living wills or not.
This had an effect on non-evangelical Republicans or "secular Republicans" . . . By itself, I don't think that it would be enough to cause a breach but this isn't just one issue. The other issues that are occurring at the same time are an inexplicable renewed debate over evolution and the stem cell research debate.
With regard to the former, there's no polite or nice way to put it so I'll just be direct. People who believe in evolution think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots -- pure and simple. The perception that an evolution believer has of a non-evolution believer is of a person saying, "Duh, my grandfather wasn't no ape."
Secular Republicans look at people who publicly discuss their doubts about evolution and who don't want it taught in public schools with utter disgust.
With regard to stem cell research, secular Republicans are excited at the prospects and supportive of practically any scientific research and they simmer at the thought of obstruction of research on religious grounds.
These three issues: evolution, Terri Schiavo and stem cell research are close to causing (or may have already caused) an irrepairable breach in the Republican coalition.
I'm a conservative. I believed in a 2nd war against in Iraq to remove the regime of Saddam Hussein as early as 1998. I also believe in making the '01 & '03 tax cuts permanent; drilling in anwar; that members of al Qaeda who are captured are illegal soldiers and not entitled to due process. I believe in progressive indexing of SS benefits, support the confirmation of John Roberts, think Antonin Scalia is the ideal justice and favor ballistic missile defense.
I also support the death penalty, oppose affirmative action, oppose gay marriage and think that the Roe v. Wade decision was a farce. I could go on but the point is made -- I'm a conservative....
But, I also accept the truth that the human species has a pre-history and I support stem cell research and I think that keeping Terri Schiavo's existance without life going was cruel and sadistic. That feeding tube should've never been inserted 14 years ago.
As a result of all of this, I now find myself in a position that I would have never dreamed of 5 or 10 years ago which is that I object to Hillary Clinton far, far less than I object to Tom Delay. Or Rick Santorum. Or Sam Brownback. Or Tom Tancredi.
Hopefully, Rudy Guiliani will be the nominee in '08 and make this all a moot point but if he isn't then I'm confronted with the possibility that I'll probably vote for Hillary Clinton despite the fact that she stands against so much that I believe in.
If there are others like me out there, and I think there are, then get ready for a 2nd Clinton Administration.
LOL
We get pretty amusing sometimes.
Morning, everyone!
Geez...SAA..I'm SO sorry about the Flameproof Penis dying...It was fun while it lasted. Too bad there's not a graveyard for threads that have been pulled.
KP, I'm glad you are feeling better, and that it was only a bent pin that prevented you from doing what you needed.
I'll be sorta in-and-out for a while, but I have really GOT to say something to the "forgetful" poster/troll/newbie who thinks McCain is a real person, worthy of mention.
Morning
as one of the possible diagnostics involves a barium enema and an endoscope, you better BELIEVE I'm hoping my WBC goes down bigtime ASAP
Morning, 'Face.
oh, you ain't wrong! even the stereotypical bachelor-male (bear with furniture) will eventually get annoyed with eggshell white
GAH!
be sure to read up on the last few hundred posts - several irregularities have been spotted and catalogued.
I almost suspect this is Olive The Other Reindeer (Mod) playing games with us in order to keep us sharp.
My apartment is white. Unfortunately, I can't change that.
well, at least I ain't a chick.
those damned "cooter-plows"...
*shudder*
that's what wall-hangings are for.
*swish-swish-swish-swish-swish*
"Dawwwwwwwwlinnnng!!! Tha-a-at lookth FFFAAA-bulous!"
*mince*
*vogue*
(ok, I'll knock it off)
It gets depressing
yeah...
That is usually true.
I've never heard them referred to that before.
ROFLOL!
Well now, there's a vague soundbite. You might want to be more specific on what you support about stem cell research.
I don't know many people who wouldn't support stem cell research AS LONG AS ABORTED BABIES AREN'T BEING USED TO DO SO. And I damn sure don't support my tax dollars going to such "research".
I'm still half asleep.
My grammatical skills aren't the best this morning. But you know what I meant.
Hey KP I got to go wash the boat. May throw it in the water tomorrow.
At the risk of sounding redundant: This particular thread is about anything we want it to be at the moment, and is NOT a "political" thread, although we have been known to discuss politics here. This is a thread to come to and relax, to get away from the other threads that become too heated to tolerate.
The layout of your posts indicate that you need help with the English language, perhaps English 101.
If your intent is to find something to argue about, or someone to argue with, please go elsewhere. This thread has no "purpose" except to be an escape from trollish, opinionated people who like to argue and expound on things that are better discussed elsewhere.
When you first signed on, the date is embedded in stone, as it were. It shows June 8, 2005, so telling us you just signed on "last night" is not going to cut it. We can read, just as well as you can.
If you wish to back McCain, that is your personal preference, but as long as his name is in your tagline, you will be approached very carefully. McCain is not popular here, even though some of us are from AZ. Being from AZ does not necessarily make us willing to accept him.
We don't care if you keep track of your movements or not...on this site, and especially this thread, that will be done for you. By us.
If you become argumentative while you are here, we will ask that you leave. This is a quiet place, and a fun place, and we don't like to be disturbed by people who just waltz in and try to tell us something we already know.
And if you have any questions, please, feel free to ask. The worst that can happen is that we will laugh at you, or maybe sic the Mods on you.
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