Posted on 07/08/2005 7:20:50 AM PDT by Politicalities
Now all of this cap about wanting to see his death certificate and maybe he bought an island in South America is just low class. The case is closed, you may find money irregularities but I seriously doubt he used it to move to his private island. I'll be willing to bet that the money irregularities there are from people still living with little or none of Andy's knowledge of the fraudulent activity's existence.
Keep in mind, Andy is was no friend of mine. Our politics are 180 degrees off, does that mean I want him to suffer or die, HELL NO.
My theory was that Andy was indeed sick, with something. In his understandable hysteria (too strong a word) to get the best care he could, he allowed things to be done in such a way that might arouse suspicion. Even Will Pitt agreed.
Now he is, apparently, dead. As a lurker on DU, I read many of his posts, and actually grew to like Andy for some reason. Not the political animal (I disagreed with him 99%, although I am all for verified ballots and more secure elections), but the human Soul. I felt for him, watched him talk about some of his personal and emotional problems. Sure, he could be a bit much, but he certainly was some character. Perhaps he reminded me of some of my gay friends and family, I dont know, but I surely WAS rooting for him to get better.
During this whole "Scamdy" fiasco, I was hoping that he might have a pancreatitis that he would easily recover from. That looks not to be the case, and I am truly saddened. I know alot of freepers will probably want to puke over what I just wrote, but I cared about Andy in a human way, more that I would most DUers or liberals. Rest In Peace, Andy Stephenson, my condolences to your close friends and family.
May God be merciful and lift Andy up to the Light of His countenance, and may perpetual Light shine upon him.
It's been enough time, has there been an obit in the papers?
There has not been. I've been keeping an eye out. You can look for yourself here
Please note that I'm not saying he isn't dead, or even hypothesizing it. I think that the reports on DU are probably accurate, and the poor guy has moved on to whatever comes next. May he rest in peace.
But since you mention it, no, an article in the Seattle Weekly is not "good enough". They don't have to be "in on" anything, they could just be credulous fools... which, in fact, they are. As I said earlier in this thread, if the Weekly reported that the sun would rise tomorrow, I'd be sure to pack a flashlight.
Just go to their website and have a look-see. They're a free tabloid. They always, always, always take the liberal side of any issue... and not even the saner variety of liberal, but always the far extreme whacko left. Their home page has a prominent link to War Dead, right after "News" but before music, arts, food, and everything else that a free weekly tabloid is supposed to have.
Which is fine. We're lucky enough to live in a country that cherishes free speech, and the Weekly is welcome to print whatever it wants. Just don't confuse it with a reputable source.
Again, I think the reports are probably accurate and Stephenson is probably dead. But a mention in the Weekly doesn't add to the credibility. I am certain that if activists from DU contacted the Weekly with the news of Stephenson's death, it would be accepted uncritically and printed without any attempt to verify.
ping to keep checking site
The thing is, by putting off the surgery till he could go to the 46% place, he dropped his odds to probably 10%, and lost his gamble. Pancreatic cancer is something you just don't mess around with. Since he clearly was messing around, I didn't believe he had it, and neither did many others. Obviously we were all wrong, and I'm sure everyone is sorry that he's dead. I never wanted him dead (or even sick!), I wanted him exposed and discredited as the fraud I was convinced he was.
Bless you. A breath of fresh air.
Andy and Ted's relationship, whatever it was, is none of our concern. and to say this after he's gone is just mean and hateful.
I was not around when the whole thing started but I have now been reading posting on this guys death for hours. After reading about this Pitt guy the book 1984 comes to mind. Big Brother cranking up the "2 Minute Hate" to divert attention from himself.
You're actually saying that people who were suspicious when a guy claimed he had pancreatic cancer and no weight loss (and a leisurely four months between diagnosis and surgery) are foolish, petty and heartless? Get a grip.
Sorry, but I just realized I have more to say.
Did you happen to see the dU thread where it was revealed that John Ashcroft had been hospitalized for pancreatitis? It was full of DUmmies celebrating his pain, and liberalnurse (who like you, thinks all the folks who thought this might be a scam are heartless scum) commented on how morphine doesn't cut the pain, and it can last a long time. Then she included a smily face. Charming, eh? Did you see the DU threads where some of the posters were single moms and they said they were sending child support checks? Who was watching out for them? You? Is it heartless and petty to be concerned that some hateful political opponent's children get properly fed?
Were we really foolish to see what looked like fraud and ask questions? Were we really petty to ask the same questions Will pitt and other DUers had asked? Were we heartless? To be heartless we would have had to know he was dying and then deride him, but we did nothing of the sort. It may seem like a nitnoy point, but Andy Stephenson didn't die of cancer, he died of a post-op infection. Nobody here killed him. Nobody here wished him a twinge of pain or a single day of sickness, much less death.
Could you please tell me what it was about the "I have pancreatic cancer but I haven't got any of the symptoms and I support socialized medicine but I want private donations and I want cash, not grants or charity help and don't worry about setting up a trust I'll just take that money and I'll be waiting for months to get the surgery even though this is one of the deadliest diseases known to man and what do you know now I'm in the ICU on a cell phone singing show tunes an hour after a Whipple" story that was supposed to inspire confidence in us? Why in the world wouldn't we be suspicious? Why in the world wouldn't the DUers?
And one more question, the question that made me sure that the words "pancreatic cancer" did not belong anywhere near this case: Can you show me a pancreatic cancer patient anywhere who has not had weight loss, fatigue and jaundice? Because I talked to the head nurse of a Milwaukee hospital surgical unit who has been in on dozens of Whipples, and she'd never seen a patient like that. Bet you haven't either. Something is very wrong here.
Something is definitely fishy. If you're raising funds, and somebody says, "Where's that going? Shouldn't you have a trust?"...the first answer should be, "Oh, thanks for the suggestion. Here's where your money is, and here's the trust we're setting up."
Nonetheless, I did probably contribute no small part to impeding his surgery & certainly contributed nothing to the recovery, and for that I apologize very deeply.
Um...no, Nakatu. I am not one of the "junior detectives." I have often thought they were a little bit obsesssive, but chalked it up to the cancer angle--if cancer was being exploited for a scam, it would be a great evil, and we might be talking about a lot of money. That said, none of them--NONE--contributed in any way, shape or form to the death of Andy Stephenson or any delay in his surgery. They asked for information. That doesn't screw up a Whipple.
Don't flagellate yourself. You did nothing to the man. Even if he was completely innocent and was emotionally hurt somehow by the investigation, that was the fault of his cohorts, who reacted to casual questions about accountability in a way that seemed almost calculated to generate suspiscion.
BTW, why did NakatuX quit?
Nope. I'm saying that people who drew unwarranted conclusions now look foolish, petty, and heartless. There's a huge gulf between, "hmm, something here doesn't smell quite right" and "LOL SCAMDY LOL, stupid DUmmies fell for it again!!!!11!"
Did you happen to see the dU thread where it was revealed that John Ashcroft had been hospitalized for pancreatitis? It was full of DUmmies celebrating his pain, and liberalnurse (who like you, thinks all the folks who thought this might be a scam are heartless scum) commented on how morphine doesn't cut the pain, and it can last a long time. Then she included a smily face. Charming, eh?
No, I must have missed that thread, which is a shame because I'm sure I enjoyed it. I always like watching the left make idiots of themselves. Now, I don't know what your upbringing was like, but my mother always told me that two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, the DUmmies gloat about conservatives who suffer illness. Yes, this makes them scumbags. If your goal is to be a scumbag yourself, by all means follow in their footsteps.
Did you see the DU threads where some of the posters were single moms and they said they were sending child support checks? Who was watching out for them? You?
Heck no, not me. Nor you. Being a conservative, I believe that adults "watch out for" themselves. I trust rational (a description which admittedly may not apply to the majority of DUers) people to make their own decisions. Children need someone to "watch out for" them. Adults are on their own.
Were we really foolish to see what looked like fraud and ask questions?
No. You were foolish to reach a conclusion and declare it with certainty in the face of insufficient evidence.
Were we really petty to ask the same questions Will pitt and other DUers had asked?
No. You were petty to dub Stephenson "Scamdy" when the fact of the scam had not been proven by clear and convincing evidence, let alone beyond a reasonable doubt.
Were we heartless? To be heartless we would have had to know he was dying and then deride him, but we did nothing of the sort.
I disagree that that's the only definition of "heartless".
Could you please tell me what it was about the "I have pancreatic cancer but I haven't got any of the symptoms and I support socialized medicine but I want private donations and I want cash, not grants or charity help and don't worry about setting up a trust I'll just take that money and I'll be waiting for months to get the surgery even though this is one of the deadliest diseases known to man and what do you know now I'm in the ICU on a cell phone singing show tunes an hour after a Whipple" story that was supposed to inspire confidence in us?
Logic lesson time.
Consider the two propositions:
A: It is certain that Andy has pancreatic cancer and needs a Whipple
B: It is certain that Andy is a big scammer, and isn't even sick.
Are A and B direct opposites? If A is false, is B necessarily true? If B is false, is A necessarily true?
No, it's not. There's plenty of room between them. Of course Andy's story was suspicious. Of course it didn't inspire much confidence. It does not follow that the whole thing was a scam.
One of the things in this world that causes me the most pain is when I see FReepers acting like DUmmies. DUmmies very frequently leap to conclusions on insufficient evidence. Examples abound. "Larry O'Donnell said that he thinks Karl Rove was Matt Cooper's source, therefore Rove will be frogmarched out of the White House in manacles and leg-irons." "Jeff Gannon appears to be a homosexual, therefore he was having an affair with a high-level member of the administration." "The chairman of Diebold lives in Ohio and supports Bush, therefore OMG BUSH STOLE OHIO!!!!11!!!!!"
They look stupid when they do this. If you emulate them, you're not balancing the scales, you're just making yourself look stupid right alongside them.
Why in the world wouldn't we be suspicious? Why in the world wouldn't the DUers?
You should have been suspicious. As should they have been. In this country, we don't convict based on suspicion.
Hey, here's an excellent example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. Here's something suspicious for you: there is still no obituary for Stephenson in the Seattle papers, several days after the fact. This is something to arouse suspicion. But anybody who made the leap to "OMG Stephenson is still alive, the stories of his death were totally fake!" would be an idiot. For all we know, it might be true. But it hasn't been proven, and to declare it so would be way premature.
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