Giving "Water to the Least of These" -- Changing the Terri Schiavo Strategy

UCM List ^ | 23Mar05 | SH Zinser

[winstonchurchill]

"ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that respondent’s emergency expedited motion for permission to provide Theresa Schiavo with food and water by natural means is DENIED." How else can it be read?

You're too smart for that. Read the full text of the order. It is a procedural dismissal of a motion as duplicative.

In any event, you well know that the denial of an order is NOT equivalent to the grant of its obverse. It is unfair argument to the laymen here to act as those you don't.

Judge Greer never affirmatively prohibited natural feeding and hydration of Terri. You know it.

[xzins]

Chains to your ankles???

ARe you at work?

I thought you retired.

[xzins]

The Florida governor states the possibility of taking Terri into protective custody in the face of EVIDENCE that has not yet been considered.

He said if DNA evidence became available in a murder case 20 years after the trial that the courts would hear it.

They know something new or believe they do or will soon.

[P-Marlowe]

Judge Greer never affirmatively prohibited natural feeding and hydration of Terri. You know it.

No I don't. That order and the circumstances regarding what is happening now speak for themselves. The media is reporting that the Schindlers are being denied the opportunity to feed or provide water to their daughter and this order is the only explanation for that prohibition.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I have to assume that she is being executed pursuant to the order of Judge Greer. Judge Greer should come out and say otherwise if it is not true.

[jude24]

The court system is murdering this woman.

They would be if she hadn't died 15 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the dispositive issue.

[fatnotlazy]

WASHINGTON — The full 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has refused to quickly review a previous decision to not allow Terri Schiavo's feeding tube to be reinserted.

Schiavo's parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, on Wednesday had asked a full federal appeals court in Atlanta to review a previous decision to not reinstate their daughter's feeding tube.

Meanwhile, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush urged the Florida Legislature to work on bills before them that could buy Schiavo time by allowing her nutrients, food and water, while legal wrangling continued.

"We're exhausting all executive options and we continue to work with the Florida Legislature to save Terri's life," Bush said during a press conference.

The Schindlers filed a petition with for an "expedited hearing" by the entire 11th Circuit court to decide whether it agrees with a previous decision made by a three-judge panel not to reinstate the tube.

The panel ruled 2-1 to deny the family's request early Wednesday morning, a day after a federal judge in Florida rejected a similar appeal.

The second attempt with this appeals court comes after the Schindlers considered taking their case directly to the U.S. Supreme Court. But because the high court previously refused to hear the case, lawyers thought the appeals court may be their best hope.

"This is an extraordinary and sad case and I believe that in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have," President Bush told reporters when asked about the issue on Wednesday. "Now we watch the courts make their decisions."

Meanwhile, outside of the Pinellas Park, Fla. hospice where Terri Schiavo is staying, police arrested some protesters who tried to get water to her. Another group of protesters claimed they would risk arrest in a similar manner later Wednesday.

A majority of the 12-member appellate court in Atlanta would have to agree to hear the case before it would be considered, said Matt Davidson, the court's calendar clerk. There was no immediate word on when the court would decide.

In their appeal, the Schindlers said their daughter's medical condition was "deteriorating rapidly." They asked that the full court order the hospice where Schiavo is staying to immediately transport her to a hospital "for any medical treatment necessary to sustain her life and to re-establish her nutrition and hydration."

"When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me, dying, starving to death," Mary Schindler said Wednesday afternoon outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Fla. "Please, someone out there, stop this cruelty. Stop the insanity. Please let my daughter live."

"It's hard to put into words how we're feeling right now," Terri's brother, Bobby Schindler, said shortly after arriving in Tallahassee early Wednesday. "My sister is in her fifth day, and it's just hard to say."

The feeding tube was disconnected on Friday after the Schindlers' appeals to keep the tube in place failed in Florida state court. Doctors have said that Terri Schiavo, 41, could survive one to two weeks without water and nutrients.

Point, Counterpoint

In its ruling, the 11th circuit panel said the woman's parents "failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims."

"There is no denying the absolute tragedy that has befallen Mrs. Schiavo," the ruling reads. "We all have our own family, our own loved ones, and our own children. However, we are called upon to make a collective, objective decision concerning a question of law."

But in the dissenting opinion, Judge Charles R. Wilson expressed concern that Schiavo's "imminent" death would end the case before it could be fully considered.

"In fact, I fail to see any harm in reinserting the feeding tube," he wrote.

• Text of 11th Circuit Court's Ruling (pdf)

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said Wednesday that he "could not be more disappointed" in the court's decision.

"Terri has been without sustenance for almost five days now. Time is of the essence and I hope all who have the ability and duty to act in this case will do so with a sense of urgency," Bush said in a statement. "Terri Schiavo — like all Americans — deserves our protection and respect. I will continue to call on the Florida Legislature to pass legislation to honor patients' decisions about end-of-life care, protect all vulnerable Floridians, and spare Terri's life."

Howard Simon of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida praised Wednesday's ruling.

"It's naive to ever say this may be over, but the U.S. Supreme Court has declined to get into this case [before] and it may be the ruling that came out this morning that may finally be the end of this case," Simon said.

The decision from the appeals court came one day after U.S. District Judge James Whittemore of Tampa denied the Schindler's request to have the tube reinserted, saying the Schindlers had not established a "substantial likelihood of success" at trial on the merits of their arguments.

Meanwhile, the Florida State Department of Children and Families was also back in court Wednesday morning.

Lawyers for DCF asked Judge George Greer to unseal probate records in the Schiavo case. The state hopes those financial records will allow it to further investigate allegations of abuse of Terri by her husband. Greer has in the past rejected these requests. The judge is expected to decide that issue later Wednesday afternoon.

The Rev. Patrick Mahoney, a Schindler family supporter, told reporters Wednesday that Bobby Schindler was in Tallahassee lobbying state lawmakers to order the feeding tube reinserted. Mahoney said three Republican votes are needed to pass such a measure.

"We want to send a very clear message — the fate of Terri Schiavo rests in the hands of Senate President [Tom] Lee and the Republican majority: Let it not be said that Terri Schiavo will starve to death in a brutal fashion" with Republicans in control of the legislature and the governor's office, Mahoney said. "If Terri Schiavo dies, it is on your watch."

Mahoney also appealed to Gov. Bush to exercise executive authority and privilege to intervene if needed.

A state senator pushing a bill to keep Schiavo alive said Wednesday this is the Florida Senate's last chance to pass legislation he hopes would save Terri Schiavo.

Sen. Daniel Webster scrambled to secure votes to pass a bill that would prohibit patients like Schiavo from being denied food and water if they didn't express their wishes in writing.

"Whatever it is, today is it," said Webster.

Webster had said Tuesday that he needed at least two senators to change their position on his bill, which could be debated when the Senate begins its session Wednesday afternoon.

"I don't even know if I have a majority vote," said Webster, a Republican.

In court documents filed Tuesday, the Schindlers said their daughter began "a significant decline" late Monday. Her eyes were sunken and dark, and her lips and face were dry.

Even before the parents' full appeal was filed, Schiavo's husband, Michael, said in his own filing that his wife's rights would be violated if the judges ordered nutrition restored during the legal wrangling.

"That would be a horrific intrusion upon Mrs. Schiavo's personal liberty, and the status quo should therefore be maintained until this court issues its final ruling," said the filing by Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos. The status quo - with the feeding tube removed - could continue for a couple of days without harming Terri Schiavo, the filing argued.

Felos had planned to file his own appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court if the tube was ordered reconnected on a temporary basis.

An appeal filed by U.S. House lawmakers last week to have the feeding tube reinserted, meanwhile, is still pending.

[winstonchurchill]

He says their request is covered if he approves of 1.540 (b)(5). Well....did he approve it or didn't he? If he didn't, then he denied "natural food & water" per his own explanation.

One more time, friend. A homely example should bring it home.

Your children are small and it's getting to be 8:00 p.m. Your precocious son (who will grow up to be a lawyer) says, "Dad, are you going to order me to go to bed right now?" You say, "No, I'm not going to order you."

An hour later, you hear your son still playing. You say, "Son, what are you doing up at this hour?" Because he is precocious, he consults Marlowe and then responds to you, "Dad, don't you remember you ordered me to stay up." You look at him nonplussed and he adds, "Well, you said you wouldn't order me to bed, so it's the same thing."

You don't have to be weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing.

[winstonchurchill]

The media is reporting that the Schindlers are being denied the opportunity to feed or provide water to their daughter and this order is the only explanation for that prohibition.

First, the media are not allowed in to humiliate poor Terri the more, so this 'story' must be coming from ... guess who?

It is within the discretion of the guardian (husband) to control all aspects of Terri's care and treatment, except as expressly ordered by the Court. There is no order of Judge Greer, so IF it is happening (which I doubt), it is the order of the guardian, not the judge. Since you are being result-oriented here, you may not care. But it makes all the difference to the validity of your gratuitous slanders of Judge Greer.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I have to assume that she is being executed pursuant to the order of Judge Greer. Judge Greer should come out and say otherwise if it is not true.

What nonsense. Not much room left to maneuver is there? You expect him to join the media circus of grasping, pandering politicians orchestrated by the Schindlers? When is the last time you heard a judge call a press conference to pontificate on some case before him? Would you want that? Absolutely silly.

[winstonchurchill]

The media is reporting that the Schindlers are being denied the opportunity to feed or provide water to their daughter and this order is the only explanation for that prohibition.

First, the media are not allowed in to humiliate poor Terri the more, so this 'story' must be coming from ... guess who?

It is within the discretion of the guardian (husband) to control all aspects of Terri's care and treatment, except as expressly ordered by the Court. There is no order of Judge Greer, so IF it is happening (which I doubt), it is the order of the guardian, not the judge. Since you are being result-oriented here, you may not care. But it makes all the difference to the validity of your gratuitous slanders of Judge Greer.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I have to assume that she is being executed pursuant to the order of Judge Greer. Judge Greer should come out and say otherwise if it is not true.

What nonsense. Not much room left to maneuver is there? You expect him to join the media circus of grasping, pandering politicians orchestrated by the Schindlers? When is the last time you heard a judge call a press conference to pontificate on some case before him? Would you want that? Absolutely silly.

[winstonchurchill]

Sorry for the duplicate post.

[winstonchurchill]

The court system is murdering this woman. They would be if she hadn't died 15 years ago. As far as I'm concerned, that's the dispositive issue.

Well and truly stated.

[P-Marlowe]

Pinellas Park police Lt. Kevin Riley, standing upper right, prepares to arrest members of the Keys family as they were attempting to bring Terri Schiavo water Wednesday morning, March 23, 2005 outside the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, Fla. The Keys family, of Burnet, Tex., kneeling, from left, Josie, 14, Gabriel, 10, Chris, the children's father, and Cameron 12, were all taken into custody. Galen Keys, upper left, the children's mother looks on, but was not arrested.The mother insists it was the children's idea: "I am proud of them," said the boys' mother Geilen Keys from Texas, who was not arrested. "They are very mature and they said 'we want to go and offer some water to Terri'."

Pinellas Park police Lt. Kevin Riley, second from left, handcuffs 14-year-old Josie Keys, left, while Pinellas County Sheriff's deputies place her father Chris in the back of a van after arresting members of the family for trespassing Wednesday morning March 23, 2005 outside the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, Fla. The family members were attempting to bring Terri Schiavo a cup of water.

Gabriel Keys (foreground) is arrested by police officers for trespassing in Pinellas Park, Florida, March 23, 2005. The young protester attempted to take a glass of water into the Woodside Hospice for the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo. A federal judge rejected a request from the parents of Schiavo to order her feeding tube reinserted, dealing a blow to attempts by the U.S. Congress and the White House to prolong her life

[winstonchurchill]

The Keys family, of Burnet, Tex., kneeling, from left, Josie, 14, Gabriel, 10, Chris, the children's father, and Cameron 12, were all taken into custody. Galen Keys, upper left, the children's mother looks on, but was not arrested.The mother insists it was the children's idea: "I am proud of them," said the boys' mother Geilen Keys from Texas, who was not arrested. "They are very mature and they said 'we want to go and offer some water to Terri'.

This guy burns me up. I don't care if he wants to be arrested. If his wife is stupid enough to want to join him, OK. But don't put your children in harm's way. What a jerk!

[johnb2004]

Should infants be killed because someone must feed them artificially? Food and water, tube or not, are not extraordinary measures when one is far from death and the body can process such nutrition. Euthanasia, or murder, is legal in our death culture.

[fatnotlazy]

Kind of goes along with what I said before about this becoming a three-ring circus. Seems that a lot of people are looking for their 15 minutes of fame. That's too bad.

[P-Marlowe]

They would be if she hadn't died 15 years ago.

What you are saying then is that she is already dead. IOW, if I walked into her room with a gun and blew her head off right now, then the only charge I could face would be mutilation of a corpse?

I'm disappointed with you, Jude. Disabled is not dead. Retarded is not dead. This is not Nazi Germany. At least I didn't think it was. Maybe we aren't really all that different from the Germans of 1933. We are but just a few rationalizations from a full blown culture of death.

Let us never forget that the lands of the reformation were also the lands of the concentration camps.

[P-Marlowe]

But don't put your children in harm's way. What a jerk!

Harm's way?

You were expecting that the police were going to shoot them for bringing a dying patient a glass of water?

OK, Maybe so. That does appear to the culture we are developing here. The Nazi's would have shot anyone bringing a glass of water to a Jew. I guess we're not that far from there now, are we?

[jude24]

I'm disappointed with you, Jude. Disabled is not dead. Retarded is not dead.

We aren't talking about "disabled" or "retard[ation]." We're talking about a woman with a liquified cerebral cortex. Your brain does not function without that cerebral cortex; what you see is that her organs still function because of residual spinal cord function.

You will say, the Schindler's claim that she can recover. Let them show me a credible neurologist who, after examining the head CT scans, can say that - and let the trier of fact determine who was right. No excuses, no conspiracy theories. Rebut this fact.

[winstonchurchill]

Let us never forget that the lands of the reformation were also the lands of the concentration camps.

What kind of left field argument is that? What's your next great argument: Hitler was an RCC adherent, so it is responsible for 'concentration camps'? You are beginning to embarrass lawyers as a group with these arguments.

[fatnotlazy]

Now we have the Florida legislature and Gov. Jeb Bush getting back into the act AGAIN!

Fla. Senate Scrambles On Schiavo

Wednesday, March 23, 2005

Associated Press

TALLAHASSEE Fla. — The state Senate began debating a bill Wednesday that would prohibit severely brain-damaged patients like Terri Schiavo from being denied food and water if they didn't express their wishes in writing.

Sen. Daniel Webster, sponsor of the bill, has said he needs at least two senators to change their position, but another senator predicted the courts would strike such a measure down anyway.

"Whatever it is, today is it," said Webster, a Republican. "I don't even know if I have a majority vote."

Webster, acknowledged that there were problems with the bill's language, but urged his colleagues to pass it with the expectation that the House would fix the issues and send it back to the Senate.

"If it makes it out of here ... you're going to get another shot at it," said Webster.

But some senators said they shouldn't be getting involved at all.

"This bill doesn't belong here. This decision belongs between the courts and the family." said Sen. Dennis Jones, a Republican.

The Legislature has stepped in before, in 2003, and Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was reinserted after six days. But "Terri's Law" was later struck down as unconstitutional by the state Supreme Court, which said it violated Schiavo's right to privacy and delegated legislative power to the governor.

The Senate minority leader, Sen. Les Miller, said the new bill faced a similar fate.

"By the time the ink is dry on the governor's signature, it will be declared unconstitutional, just like it was before," said Miller, a Democrat. "So I don't see anything or any language that can persuade my vote."

But at least one senator said he was considering changing his vote Wednesday morning.

"I'm praying about it," said Sen. Gary Siplin, also a Democrat. "I don't want anyone to die who doesn't have to."

Gov. Jeb Bush on Wednesday renewed his call for the Legislature to step in and "spare Terri's life."

Bush and the head of the state's social services agency also filed a petition with a Pinellas County trial court seeking to take custody of Schiavo. It cites new allegations of abuse and challenges Schiavo's diagnosis as being in a persistent vegetative state based on the opinion of a neurologist working for the state.

If the Senate passes Webster's bill, it would have to take a second vote requiring two-thirds approval to immediately sent it to the House. Otherwise, the House would have to wait until Thursday to consider the measure. The full House is not scheduled to meet Thursday, but it could be called into session if necessary.

The House has already passed a bill, but it has broader language than the Senate version. The Senate bill would apply only to cases where families disagree on a patient's wishes.

Schiavo, 41, has been at the center of a court battle between her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and her husband, Michael Schiavo, over whether she would want to be kept alive in a severely brain damaged state. She has gone without food and water since Friday, when her feeding tube was removed under court order. Doctors have said she could live through next week.

Michael Schiavo says she wouldn't want to be kept alive in a persistent vegetative state. The Schindlers say those weren't her wishes and contest the diagnosis, saying their daughter is conscious and could recover.

Her parents' options continued to narrow as a three-judge panel of the federal appeals court in Atlanta refused early Wednesday to order the reinsertion of the tube. The Schindlers asked the full 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to review the panel's decision and said they would take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Her brother, Bobby Schindler, arrived in the state capital early Wednesday to plead with lawmakers.

"I'm not going to give up hope," he said. "My family never has. We'll keep doing what we have to do to somehow get my sister out of this mess."

Schindler covered his eyes with his hands and bent his head as he sat in the public gallery above the Senate floor, following the contentious debate over the bill.

"To be kept alive artificially above and beyond your wishes and the wishes you expressed to your family -- that is cruel and unusual punishment," said Sen. Jim King, R-Jacksonville.

Sen. Burt Saunders took exception to accusations that lawmakers opposing the bill were effectively killing Terri Schiavo.

"I don't believe I'm voting to end a life," said Saunders, R-Cape Coral. "I believe I'm voting to recognize the sanctity of life ... to let people die peacefully."