Posted on 09/19/2004 8:38:35 PM PDT by grace522
I think that is what I always understood. You can opt for a court martial if you are threatened with a less than honorable discharge, but it's like plea bargaining, and you don't know what the alternative might bring.
please remove me from you ping list. thanks
JOHN KERRY .............SIGN THE RELEASE FORM 180, as President Bush has done or EXPLAIN WHY YOU WILL NOT SIGN THE FORM!
You want to be our President!
And we will NEVER AGAIN allow the network press to LIE to the American public via refusing to BALANCE the information they dole out regarding candidates running for President.
We are going to STOP the propaganda like EDITING of INFORMATION done by CBS, ABC and NBC.
see my post #196 ...rto
see my post #196 ...rto
My only problem with this story is the fact it is such an incredible bombshell if true that someone in the Pentago would have leaked it by now. This information would have had to go through more than a couple of people. As a Senator a lot of people who saw it would have remembered it. It's worth continuing to pursue, but it just doesn't make sense he could cover something like this up considering the enemies he must have in the military.
Is this a multi-page document?
...
These kind of things tend to have,,, dates, revision letters, etc.
Inspect the letter from the Navy to Judicial Watch (answer to publically noted request for release of docs). Note Kerry has not released 31 pages. He has not released all his docs.
Mr. Kerry's parade of docs are ever so changing as the "sands of time" in a cBS soap opera.
Regards
fight_truth_decay
> I really think pursuing the status of M. Kerry's
> discharge is basically a dry hole.
I'm not the one you need to address that to. Although
I'm suspicious of Kerry's 1978 discharge (being years
late, and during the Carter Admin), I'm not seeing a
smoking M-79 that points to any other discharge issues.
And unless the 4 cartons of stuff the Swifties got
recently from the USN Archives contain any clues, I
suspect nothing will turn up before the election.
There's more than enough to sink Kerry swiftly, and
no need overreach speculation.
The effective date 03-01-70 in block 11d is the date of the document. There is no date as to when it was typed, so one must assume that it was typed at or about the same time. What's your point? I just checked my DD214. It does not contain a date typed, only the effective date. If you look at Kerry's DD214, you will note that it Block #11c refers to his BUPERS order NB 036419 of 8 Dec 69.
What bothers me is that the lower part contains mention of the Silver Star 'V' device, which I don't see on the two (of the three that exist) Silver Star citations on Kerry's website.
The combat "V" distinguishing device would not be on the Silver Star ctiations because it would be redundant. It is not necessary nor is the decoration worn that way. There have been plenty of discussions of why it is on Kerry's DD214 that way. It is clearly a mistake. That said, Kerry would derive no benefit from such a mistake, regardless of whoever did it. I suspect, as was the same in my case, that Kerry was asked to list his decorations to assist the preparer in the typing of the DD214. Kerry, in his ignorance, wanted to make sure that the record showed he earned his Silver Star in Combat similar to the Bronze Star. If so, Kerry and the officer authorized to sign the form were wrong.
It appears you are trying to prove that the DD214 provided is not an official copy even though it is stamped that way. Bit of a stretch if you ask me.
As I inidicated earlier.
Kerry received an honorable discharge. His progression through the Reserve system was normal. He was released into the inactive reserves on Jan 3, 1970 with no drill requirement, only the requirement to keep the Navy informed of his whereabouts. He was transferred on July 1, 1972 into the Standby Reserves, inactive and received his honorable discharge on Feb 16, 1978.
As a former naval officer who resigned his commission in 1972 and was released from active duty, I had a similar experience. I was transferred into the Standby Reserves and then received my honorable discharge on Feb 16, 1978. A Navy board convenes at least annually to decide who to drop from the Standby Reserves. Kerry and I happened to have been transferred into the Standby Reserves in the same year, hence the same date for our honorable discharges.
There are no appeals, you have a choice of either a court martial or Mast. If you go to court martial you have a federal criminal record, but you are allowed to appeal. If you go to Mast, you don't have a record but you can never appeal.
That is how it is.
A group of Vietnam Vets asked the Secretary of the Navy in 1976 to investigate Lt. Kerry's actions after he completed his active duty and while still a member of Fleet Reserve.
JAG (the Navy Judge Advocate General) opened a formal inquiry in July, 1976 as part of a general investigation of all Vietnam vets who were involved in antiwar activities after returning from active duty.
On January 21, 1977, the day after his inauguration, President Jimmy Carter signed an executive order granting amnesty to all Vietnam draft evaders.
JAG closed its investigation about 10 days later, ruling that found no reason to proceed to an Article 32 hearing (the first steps towards court martial) for any case involving activities of American military personnel (active duty or reserve) for their post-Vietnam actions.
I was a newspaper reporter for the Alton Telegraph in Alton, Illinois, in 1977 and wrote extensively about the investigation and also about President Carter's pardon, along with the public reaction. Those who want to look up my clips from that period can do so if they have access to a Nexis account. The Telegraph's online archives don't go back to 1977.
Although I suspected at the time that JAG's ruling was directly connected to Carter's pardons, I could not prove it or find anyone willing to confirm it.
Whatever the reason, the issue is legally dead.
Doug
Thanks, it makes sense now.
For anyone who doubts or for those who will cry 'FOUL' to these Kerry disclosures; the consistency of truth. . .and the proof of the fraud, named John Kerry is there.
Carter effectively shut the door on the topic. I am guessing this would explain the honorable discharge coming in 1978, after the case was closed [possibly] due to the Carter amnesty.
The UCMJ applies to reservists only while undergoing reserve training: UCMJ Applicability 802.2(a)(3) "Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training."
Read down a bit futher:
802.2(6) Members of the Fleet Reserve and Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.
The Fleet Reserve is the Navy’s ready reserve, the proper name is “Fleet Reserve”.
I'm saying that the PDFs that *are* available answer a lot of questions, if people would only take the time to read them.
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