Posted on 09/19/2004 8:38:35 PM PDT by grace522
IF YOU ARE A KERRY FAN PLEASE READ THIS... YOU MAY NOT WANT TO BELIEVE IT, AND YOU WILL NOT LIKE IT, BUT YOU CAN CHECK THE RECORDS.. I know there's a lot of these going around, but this one is verrrrry interesting.... > [Original Message] Subject: Kerry's Military Record? Oh What a Tangled Web He Weaves...
Now that the Kerry team has again raised the issue of President Bush service in the Texas Air National Guard they should be held to answer the question below outlined by Mr. Steve Nash, US Navy, Retired. If Kerry would release all of his Military records, this issue could be put to bed.
"Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL Authentication Team -Director
Authentin SEAL Phone 707 438 0120 "The only service where all investigators are US Navy Seals" http://www.authentiseal.org
Military Record
Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore,,,, Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it'because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended!
This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect. There are 5 classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct,and Dishonorable.
My guess is that he was Discharged in the '70s, but not Honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was in the Oval Office; Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted. His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor under fire.
This will blow up in his face before October 15th. ================================================================
On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry signed a 6 year enlistment contract with the Navy (plus a 6-month extension during wartime). On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry also signed an Officer Candidate contract for 6 years -- 5 years of ACTIVE duty & ACTIVE Naval Reserves, and 1 year of inactive standby reserves (See items #4 & $5). Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3 years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48 drills per year,and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additionally, Kerry, as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse statements against his chain of command or statements against his country,especially during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.
Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release from active US Navy duty falsely states "My current regular period of obligated service would be completed in December of this year."
On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.. Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his not more than 17 days of active duty per year training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records been released? Has anyone ever talked to Kerry's Commanding Officer at the Naval Reserve Center where Kerry drilled?
On 1 July 1972 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve Inactive.
On 16 February 1978 Lt. John Kerry was discharged from US Naval Reserve.
Below are some of the crimes Lt. Kerry USNR committed as a Ready Reservist, while he was acting as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War:
1. Lt. Kerry attended many rallies where the Vietcong flag was displayed while our flag was desecrated, defiled, and mocked, thereby giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
2. Lt. Kerry was involved in a meeting that voted on assassinating members of the US Senate.
3. Lt. Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.
4. Lt. Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national television, and condemned the military and the USA.
5. Lt Kerry met with NVA and Vietcong communist leaders in Paris, in direct violation of the UCMJ and the U.S. Constitution.
Lt. Kerry by his own words & actions violated the UCMJ and the U.S.Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and U.S Code 18 U.S.C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.
The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." ...........................................end..............
Yep, but for officers? Furthermore, you had to accept it as an alternative to a court martial. They couldn't just decide to give you a bad discharge without due process. The other thing that doesn't make sense is hehad a six year committment. A discharge ends your reserve duty. Why would he get a bad discharge while on reserve duty? I know people are saying it is because of his work with VVAW, but I think he would have loved to be the martyr and paint the government as out to get him. I'm not saying this story is impossible, I'm just saying there are too many things which don't add up.
Commissioned officers were given a chance to resign, I tried to put a lLT in jail one time.
Can you get a less than honorable discharge without a Court Martial? This seems to be an issue which no one is sure about. It would just seem logical that someone has to decide you don't deserve an honorable discharge and it would have to be a Court Martial. If there was a Court Martial there would be a public record of it, and not just a document in Kerry's file, I presume.
Someone on another thread today suggested (Damn... now it was *yesterday*...) that we should make copies of the SF-180 form and start showing up wherever Ketchup Boy or TerrorAAAYza are going to appear, and hand him/her the form and ask him to sign it, or ask her to withhold ahhh... er, *something* from him until he signs it.
I thought that was activism at its finest... "Senator Kerry, here is a copy of the SF-180 form, could you please sign it and submit it???"
ping
I did too, but it has been 35 years ago and things might be different today. The people I processed accepted a less than honorable discharge (called "Undesirable, for the good of the service," in those days) as an alternative to a Court Martial. Most of them wanted out of the military so bad they would accept it. As the processor one of my jobs was to explain in detail all the benefits they were giving up as a result of accepting this discharge. Most soldiers who had Vietnam service but got into some trouble were offered General Discharge (Discharge under honorable conditions) as deference to their service in Vietnam, but even they couldn't get one without being offered the alternative of a Court Martial. The military had so many drug addicted soldiers this was a way to avoid to overwhelming number of Court Martials that would have been required to process all these men. Things may be a lot different today in terms of procedure.
Bump for John Forges Kerry.
"Can you get a less than honorable discharge without a Court Martial? This seems to be an issue which no one is sure about."
No, it's not a complicated issue. In my day, there were several levels of discharge:
Honorable
General
Other than honorable
Bad conduct
Dishonorable
It took a different level of authority to saddle somebody with these. A command could convene an admin board, hold a hearing, and give somebody a general discharge, if their conduct warranted it. However, only a general court martial could award a dishonorable discharge. As I recall, a summary court martial could award an OTH or BC.
This has changed down the years, but it can easily be ascertained what the regulations were when Kerry was in. It would seem quite possible that he got a general discharge without being court-martialed.
Say wah????
Do you know if this is universal across the services, or does it differ across them? THe point about not being able to complete basic is a good one, since the government could hardly give you an honorable discharge. I always assumed you were seperated without any discharge, but I see how that would be somewhat impossible given that you have enlistment papers.
Most people lump all bad discharges under the Dishonorable. In fact, that is an extremely rare discharge. Most are Undesirable or Bad Conduct and with those you lose all benefits and I believe are barred from working for the government or on contracts with companies doing business with the govt. Not sure about the voting thing.
During Vietnam all enlistments were for 6 years. You enlisted for active duty depending on the branch or whether you were drafted, but you never got a discharge till 6 years later. THe balance of active and reserve, whether active or inactive totalled 6 years.
There is no way Kerry was given a dishonorable discharge. If he did I doubt he would have been eligible to run for the Senate or any other public office. Dishonorable discharges are a huge deal in the military and VERY rare. It would be a matter of public record.
Then why the Honorable discharges (multiple)?
BTW, I think this chase into his records will be fruitless.
But, It should be looked into as fervently as the record of the President.
Kerry needs to sign the form.
I'm not sure. I only know that when I got out the military was cutting way back on strength so I got a 30 day early out from my two years of active service and was placed on inactive reserve status. 4 years and 1 month later I received an Honorable Discharge in the mail. I don't know of it was the same for officers and the navy.
French toast, anyone?
OH NO! That was NOT supposed to be posted. I am sorry re post 98
But here's the deal. Kerry was not discharged properly. He was discharged in 1978 by the pleasure of Jimmy Carter. If you look at his 1978 Discharge, it is done under Title 10 US Code Section 1162 which is now defunct and is replaced by 12681, I believe. This means that he went outside of normal channels to obtain that discharge.....to JIMMY CARTER!
PLEASE delete my post 98 which was posted in error! It is wrong and I did not think it got posted. I am sorry.
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