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To: Askel5; Corin Stormhands
=== To me it seems irrational to think that God would damn people for eternity for seeking to start a viable life by these means...

Simply because they are a rejection of God's will, God's plan and exclude the Creator absolutely?

If God is the one who creates the souls, how is any soul created that is ~not~ his will?

This is an honest question from someone who has a hard time understanding why evil is often successful.... Why innocents are allowed to suffer. I can accept to a certain degree that God has more of a 'hands off' approach than I would wish regarding what His creations ~do~ in life, but I'd have to think if He is really sovereign, then NO ONE could create a life that was outside His will. If it ~is~ done, doesn't it go without saying that it is His will being done?

129 posted on 07/26/2004 1:02:13 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (~*-,._.,-*~Loves her hubbit~*-,._.,-*~)
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To: HairOfTheDog
God has an ordaining will and a permitting will. He does not interfere with our free will.
130 posted on 07/26/2004 1:17:49 PM PDT by johnb2004
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To: HairOfTheDog

=== This is an honest question from someone who has a hard time understanding why evil is often successful.... Why innocents are allowed to suffer. I can accept to a certain degree that God has more of a 'hands off' approach than I would wish regarding what His creations ~do~ in life, but I'd have to think if He is really sovereign, then NO ONE could create a life that was outside His will. If it ~is~ done, doesn't it go without saying that it is His will being done?



The thing you have to remember is that God, like any good father, loves his children enough to let them make mistakes. That's the essence of our Free Will: an ability to choose and to do Evil.

Does that help somewhat?

Additionally, it might help to view the artificial creation of life as a natural evil from which God (and God alone) brings forth the good that are those few human lives which survive the process in which countless human lives are sacrificed.

The universe operates according to certain laws. Just as it is certainly in His power (but against his plan for us and our freedom) to interfere in our Free Will, the natural laws also must operate in a consistent fashion.

Men are perverse but they aren't stupid. It was only a matter of time before they began unlocking the secrets of conception and gestation. (Artificial uteruses, I'm sure, will be popular with Tomorrow's Hollywood starlets who are afraid to loosen their boyish waistlines with pregnancy.)

Man's quest to manufacture a more perfect human and condition a psychologically and spiritually New Man all are part and parcel of His fallen nature ... that stain of original sin by which he inevitably tries to usurp the place of God.

The Redemption stands testament to God's will in these matters. There will always be room for forgiveness by Him who alone knows the hearts of men.


193 posted on 07/26/2004 9:08:20 PM PDT by Askel5
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