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Indeed, I immediately recognized the challenge as bait in response to Gore3000's reply to my post at 1145. David Koresh made the statement in question. But the bait was not addressed to me and several of the D[esigned]U[niverse] posters have been offended by unsolicited replies.
Well, if this statement isn't hypocritical. First, I would like to know WHO in the Designed Universe crowd gets "offended" by unsolicited replies. I can only recall one time in 2 months of posting with you all that I have told someone my reply wasn't addressed to them and that was because Balrog made a snotty remark. You, however, get your petticoat all in a bunch if anyone so much as posts to you that you have on virtual ignore and push the abuse button(in spite of the fact you never told us NOT to post to you). YOU are the one who when folks have a disagreement with you accuse others of "STALKING" (and now we see this not only in the case of ALS, but of OKC on the libertypost.org website and probably the 5 of us who were named for "harassment" as well).

Therefore I waited until someone not among the usual D[esigned] U[niverse] posters answered; that is why I responded to you and not earlier.
Andrew doesn't post over at Designed Universe, so you could have answered him. I don't even think he is registered.

The implication of the bait is that since David Koresh had instant recall of Scripture it is reasonable that others would question the Spirit within me which brings Scriptures to mind instantaneously. And I doubt that Matthew 12:24 would have been placed on my heart if the identity of the Spirit were merely questioned, i.e. evidently it was the naming that caused the reaction in the Spirit.

Sounds quite familiar AG. One of the reasons I went off on you on the threads archived here

On those threads, Jesse Shurun wrote the following:

To: Alamo-Girl

Edwards, Jonathan (1703-1758) American philosopher and theologian who studied at Yale and received his bachelor's degree before his 17th birthday. Edwards' preaching provoked the explosive beginnings of the "Great Awakening," a religious revivalist movement in the American Colonies of the 1740s. One of the most innovative of colonial philosophers, he was also most conscientiously tied to the past; he is often referred to as the last Puritan. That the Devil can Cite Scripture for His Purpose (1746) Excerpted from Edwards' "Treatise on Religious Affections," a work consisting largely of sermons he preached from 1742-43. Here Edwards warns that religious affections are not necessarily holy when they are "remarkably brought to the mind." For, he preaches, "what evidence is there that the devil cannot bring texts of Scripture to the mind, and misapply them to deceive persons?"

1,313 posted on 09/03/2003 3:13 AM CDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)

To which you replied:To: JesseShurun; HalfFull So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. – Isaiah 55:11

But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils….

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come. - Matthew 12:24 and 31-32

The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household? - Matthew 10:24-25

1,322 posted on 09/03/2003 9:54 AM CDT by Alamo-Girl

This kind of MISUSE of Scripture was what caused me to stand against you. I've know of people who have gone into clinical depression and been suicidal thinking that they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Your not-so-subtle accusations MISUSING Scripture were inexcusable. In case you want to deny that they were accusations, deny away. They were similar to the post found a little earlier in the thread that occurred when several of us were trying to get you to exhibit one ounce of integrity as the self-appointed mediatrix of the "agreement" by reining in signer, Aric2000 (something which NEVER DID occur until the very end when Radio Astronomer told him to knock it off just before he was banned (in that incarnation). These statements came from YOU Alamo Girl, and they were the statements that Jesse as reacting to to begin with.

To: PatrickHenry; general_re; Aric2000; DittoJed2; HalfFull; goodseedhomeschool (returned); All

The main principle which will make the ”agreement of the willing for science threads” work, or not, is our ability, willingness and discipline to recognize the posts and posters who must be ignored and then, faithfully, to ignore them.

The agreement seeks to define in secular terms the subjects and posting decorum which ought to be shunned by the willing and brought to the attention of Lurkers/Freepers to avoid flame wars. Certainly, some of the willing do not believe in Christ and therefore that is the appropriate formulation for such an agreement.

However, the majority of those who have signed from both sides of the debate – and all of those who want the agreement destroyed – are Christian. And since the subject of the most heated debates invariably tends toward issues of differences in Christian belief, perhaps we ought to all – believers or not – look to the Scriptures for clarity as to what or who ought to be ignored:

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. - Matthew 7:15-20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

Indeed, there is no law in the Scripture or guideline on Free Republic or prohibited conduct in the agreement which is against such behavior, the fruit of the Spirit.

Therefore, I strongly recommend that whenever we can characterize a poster’s conduct as loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, gentle, good, faithful, meek and self-controlled --- then we ought to listen carefully and with an open mind to everything said.

Conversely, when we find the poster’s conduct is hateful, malcontent, disruptive, anxious, rough, mean, proud or impulsive --- then we ought to ignore the post and/or the poster.

1,261 posted on 09/02/2003 1:33 PM CDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Your posting of Matthew 7:15-20

Are you saying that DittoJed2, myself, or others who fight the dispicable conduct of some of the signers are on the wrong side of this scripture? If so, how can you know our hearts, AG? And, when we firmly point out that a signer's behavior is of the worse kind, are we wrong.? Was our Lord wrong when he called the Pharisees of his day "A brood of vipers"?

Please tell me, AG, that I misunderstand your post.

1,262 posted on 09/02/2003 1:44 PM CDT by HalfFull ((I second Jed's motion...scrap it.))
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To: Alamo-Girl

I, like Halffull would like further clarification of your post. What exactly are you saying AG?

1,263 posted on 09/02/2003 1:52 PM CDT by DittoJed2
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To: Alamo-Girl

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Very apt. Enough said.

I'll wager that every creationist who posts in these threads, including those who are strongly opposed to the agreement, will take that as a perfect description of himself. But to the other side of the debate, some people are perceived differently. Most of us are in denial about our personal shortcomings.

Conversely, when we find the poster’s conduct is hateful, malcontent, disruptive, anxious, rough, mean, proud or impulsive --- then we ought to ignore the post and/or the poster.

I like everything you say. Yet ... I've been accused of arrogance, and although I'm probably guilty at times, there are other times when the "arrogance" is an illusion, or a mis-perception on the part of someone who has had his opinions discredited. The flip-side of a claim of arrogance is often hyper-sensitivity. Both attitudes should be avoided. Debates like ours are not for the timid.

Also, there are those who claim that all of science is arrogant. To a person who feels that way, anyone on my side of the debate will get accused of arrogance merely for factually supporting his views. Indeed, blanket claims of arrogance are often made about the entire group of evolution supporters. We can't all be arrogant. Yet that's the accusation made by some.

Also, as I've said before, sometimes one becomes impatient with a poster who repeatedly claims there is no evidence for evolution, and that it's all an athiestic, Marxist (or nazi) fraud. Is that a provocation which should always be ignored? I ignore them. But sometimes it's a newbie to these threads, and it's taken as an innocent (but ignorant) statement that should be answered with facts. Alas, all too often when a response is posted, out comes the "arrogance of science" stuff, so it seems there are times we can't win.

All that I can do is to present my views and try (with occasional failures) to behave myself. In this environment, that's not always easy. Only you seem to be unfailingly unflappable. I wish there were more of that to go around.

And then, in this very thread (post 1228), a declared troll has called me disruptive. So whatcha gonna do? No agreement can solve all the problems we encounter here. All we can do is try.

1,264 posted on 09/02/2003 2:31 PM CDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: HalfFull; DittoJed2

Thank y’all so much for your replies!

However, I cannot answer your questions. The above post was the result of days of intercessory prayer for all of the posters here or mentioned here, the flame wars, the spiritual warfare at the root of it all. I felt compelled in the Spirit to put the above post together in that fashion, at this moment. You’ll need to ask the Spirit directly if it has a personal applicability to either of you. I do not know and would not ask.

IOW, the answer to my prayers – what I hear in the Spirit - goes to the inner man, every inner man – not a particular person or group – that is, when we Christians allow the Spirit to work within us unobstructed by our self-will, the fruits will come forth and the fruits themselves authentic our words.

It is interesting that you brought up our Lord’s calling the Pharisees a ‘brood of vipers’ – that is another set of Scriptures I was being lead to yesterday concerning the need for humility among all of us. As you know, Jesus reserved his strongest words for the most outwardly religious, who he addressed passionately after underscoring that we must be humble:

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. [Ye] blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? - Matthew 23:12-33

These “woes” and the railing at the moneychangers in the Temple are the only instances that come to mind of Christ showing anger when He was in the flesh, even at Gethsemane and Calvary.

Humility means laying self-will aside, which we must do to not obstruct God's will. I gather that is why I was lead to same Scriptures yesterday that have been brought to your mind and Spirit today.

1,265 posted on 09/02/2003 3:06 PM CDT by Alamo-Girl

Alamo-Girl, you may not have the Bible memorized. I don't think anyone but Jack Van Impe is even close. But you know enough to use it to hurt apparently anyone who disagrees with you. As for Howlin's comment about people not getting by with going after you because of your prestige around her, yeah, you did a good thing. You documented Clinton's legacy, and for that all of us are grateful. It shouldn't, however, make you an "untouchable" around here who can get by with whatever lie (such as accusing ALS of stalking you) she wants to and never be questioned about it. Contrary to your claims, you are not completely "free from all guilt". And more and more people are catching on to that every day.