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CARBON DATING UNDERCUTS EVOLUTION'S LONG AGES
ICR ^ | October, 2003 | John Baumgardner

Posted on 09/25/2003 2:46:02 PM PDT by HalfFull

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To: Honcho Bongs
There are at least 3 Baumgartners working for Los Alamos. J Baumgartner, JR Baumgartner, and Michael J. Baumgartner. Are you sure it isn't another Baumgartner?
321 posted on 09/25/2003 8:55:28 PM PDT by DittoJed2 (Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it,derived from our Maker- John Adams)
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To: HalfFull
The author of this piece is the same John Baumgardner who co-authored an article in Science five years ago, modelling the earth over the last 150 million years?

What kind of hypocrite is this guy?

322 posted on 09/25/2003 8:55:38 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: DittoJed2
Gee, in 60 seconds you come up with three Baumgardners. What's your angle?
323 posted on 09/25/2003 8:56:30 PM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: DittoJed2
Besides, the guys name is BAUMGARDNER, not Baumgartner
324 posted on 09/25/2003 8:57:28 PM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: Honcho Bongs
It's the same bozo. To get paid by the gummint, he write articles modelling the earth's mantle over umpteeen million years. But then he writes these tinfoil articles for creationists, claiming it isn't more than 6000 years old. Well, if both sides are paying you, where's the harm?
325 posted on 09/25/2003 9:02:47 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: AndrewC
In any case, no one seems to have a credible explanation for the excess carbon-14. It is a puzzler. Cosmic rays can't do it. They have already been eliminated because of the atmosphere.

Funny how the evolutionists turn against science when it proves their assumptions wrong. They have been touting carbon dating and other dating forms as proof for their theories. Now that strong proof against it comes out they call the messenger names. Sorta reminds me of the tactics of a certain exinhabitant of the White House.

Yes, the question that cannot be answered is why after supposedly a million, ten million years, just about all the C14 is not gone?

326 posted on 09/25/2003 9:06:03 PM PDT by gore3000 (Knowledge is the antidote to evolution.)
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To: Honcho Bongs
There are two J Baumgardners in their system. JR Baumgardner and J Baumgardner. Listed as separate authors. How can you be sure it is the same one?
327 posted on 09/25/2003 9:06:39 PM PDT by DittoJed2 (Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it,derived from our Maker- John Adams)
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To: DittoJed2
Okay, you win. The Creationist Baumgardner just sweeps up at Los Alamos. Fitting, don't you think?
328 posted on 09/25/2003 9:08:59 PM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: Honcho Bongs
I never said that. I've just seen this posted and Baumgardner attacked over it- but there are possibly at least two Baumgardners who work for Los Alamos. May not be the same guy. I asked RWP to email him and find out why he would have supported something that says 150 million years. Evidentally, he is satisfied with ad hominem attacks on the guy's character. I'll email him myself and see if its the same guy. If I get an answer, I'll let you all know.
329 posted on 09/25/2003 9:11:59 PM PDT by DittoJed2 (Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it,derived from our Maker- John Adams)
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To: ForOurFuture
I know some people who believe that God created the world, and than the evolutionary process began following it or that God allowed the evolutionary process to occur in order for His commands to be met.
330 posted on 09/25/2003 9:13:10 PM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: Sentis
You are looking at some carbon from another source not the original material it is that simple.

In other words, if it agrees with evolution, it is a true finding, if it disagrees with evolution is is pollution. Sounds like heads you win, tails I lose, the usual nonsense put out by evolutionists. Excuseses, excuses and more excuses when scientific findings do not agree with evolutionist assumptions.

331 posted on 09/25/2003 9:14:52 PM PDT by gore3000 (Knowledge is the antidote to evolution.)
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To: Honcho Bongs; DittoJed2
Sounds like a schizo.

Why don't you ask him, instead of belittling him? Oh, I know, it is too hard to write a simple e-mail.

332 posted on 09/25/2003 9:19:47 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I've emailed Mr. Baumgardner. Hopefully he will send a clarification.
333 posted on 09/25/2003 9:24:06 PM PDT by DittoJed2 (Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it,derived from our Maker- John Adams)
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To: narby; ForOurFuture; jakkknife
I guess he can't prove God exists. He's avoiding the question.

The life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Look here and then try reading this book.

The Testimony of the Evangelists:
The Gospels Examined by the Rules of Evidence
by Simon Greenleaf

334 posted on 09/25/2003 9:30:29 PM PDT by bondserv
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To: Alter Kaker
Do not trifle with me, boy.

Trifle science ... evolution !

335 posted on 09/26/2003 12:33:33 AM PDT by f.Christian (evolution vs intelligent design ... science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- * architecture * !)
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To: gore3000
qoute from the gore 3000 "In other words, if it agrees with evolution, it is a true finding, if it disagrees with evolution is is pollution. Sounds like heads you win, tails I lose, the usual nonsense put out by evolutionists. Excuseses, excuses and more excuses when scientific findings do not agree with evolutionist assumptions "

As I said only a fool Carbon dates a Rock. Do you even know how Carbon dating works? I guess you people don't how utterly pathetic.
336 posted on 09/26/2003 2:46:49 AM PDT by Sentis
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P L A C E M A R K E R
337 posted on 09/26/2003 3:59:17 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (The "Agreement of the Willing" is posted at the end of my personal profile page.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
The author of this piece is the same John Baumgardner who co-authored an article in Science five years ago, modelling the earth over the last 150 million years? What kind of hypocrite is this guy?

Typical of you, Mr. prof, that you begin right off the bat with an attack on a researcher's character. Pardon me if I question an attack from you because you don't like the subject matter.

That said, I wouldn't mind looking into your accusation...care to post the specific article please? That way we can all check it out, make sure it was really written by the same person, etc. The numberous articles I have read from this guy clearly show his consistant stand.

338 posted on 09/26/2003 4:15:20 AM PDT by HalfFull
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To: Sentis
As I said only a fool Carbon dates a Rock. Do you even know how Carbon dating works? I guess you people don't how utterly pathetic.

I know you would rather insult others, but perhaps you may want to know that many fossils exist that are not "rock" .

Read, and learn....

Fossil definitions:

TYPES OF FOSSILS

Paleontologist basically recognize two types of fossils:

1. Body Fossils - the actual body or body parts of an organism, whether altered or not.

2. Trace Fossils - any evidence of past life that is not a body fossil; examples: tracks, trails, burrows borings, impressions, molds, casts, steinkerns.

MODES OF PRESERVATION

An important observation to be made about any fossil is the method of preservation. This indicates what happened to the fossil subsequent to its burial, and the kind of environment in which it was originally buried. Not every organism becomes fossilized. Important prerequisites for fossilization are quick burial, and the presence of some hard parts. If the animal is not quickly buried; bacteria, other animals or erosional processes can destroy it. Most fossils have some hard parts. However, organisms sometimes die in anaerobic environments and soft parts can be preserved. But preservation of soft parts is unusual. Below are the different types of preservation.

I. BODY FOSSILS

A. Unaltered Remains--This category includes those fossils which have undergone little or not change in structure and composition. As a general rule (but by no means absolute), an organism which lived fairly recently has a greater probability of being unaltered than a more ancient one.

Original Skeletal Material--Organisms which have hard parts are preserved as the original material. This includes many invertebrate shells composed of calcium carbonate, silica, chitin, or vertebrate bones of calcium phosphate.

Encrustations--In many caves, ground water seeps and drips constantly; the high concentration of dissolved minerals in such water is left behind when the water drips, and forms a thin crust on the interior surface of the cave and whatever lies in it. This will coat and preserve any organism which dies here.

Tar Impregnation--Tar pits are excellent sites for fossilization. The famous Rancho La Brea tar pits in southern California have yielded particularly rich collections of vertebrate bones, wood, etc. Smaller pits have yielded perfectly preserved insects and even insect larvae.

Amber Entombment--Certain cone-bearing trees, such as spruce, pine and fir, contain a sticky resinous "pitch" which comes from wounds in the tree. Small insects and other minute organism may become trapped in this resin, which after burial may harden into amber. Certain parts of the Baltic Sea coast and some of the islands in the West Indies are well known for occurrences of insects preserved in amber.

Refrigeration--During the Pleistocene glaciation, when ice sheets cover much of the Northern Hemisphere, some animals (mammoths, for example) fell into crevasses in frozen terrain or became trapped in permanently frozen soil. Some of these animals have been discovered perfectly preserved.

Mummification--In very arid regions, animals may dry out quickly and be preserved, soft parts and all. Anyone who has found a dried-out fish behind the tank has seen this type of preservation.

B. Altered Remains--As sediments become compressed by the weight of overlying sediments, they slowly undergo the process of lithification. Common cementing materials in the groundwater are carbonate, silica, and iron oxides. Often the groundwater and their minerals may affect the fossilization process.

Permineralization -- Many bones, shells, and plant stems have porous internal structures. These pores may become filled with mineral deposits. In the process of permineralization, the actual chemical composition of the original hard parts of the organism may not change.

Dissolution/Replacement -- Groundwater (especially acidic groundwater) may act to dissolve a hard structure in an organism trapped in sediments and may, simultaneously deposit a mineral in its place--molecule by molecule. Replication of tree trunks, including their internal microscopic cellular structure, by silica in the process of forming PETRIFIED WOOD is a classic example of this type of fossilization.

Recrystallization – conversion, essentially in the solid state, of the mineralogy of the fossil usually to a new mineral or to coarser crystals of the original mineral.

Carbonization -- When organisms become mashed into the sediment, their volatile (liquid or gaseous) components may be forced out, leaving only a film of carbon. If additional organic matter remains when, for example, plants are entombed, the result is coal.

II. TRACE FOSSILS

Mold--Any reproduction of the anatomical features of the internal or external surface of an organism. Animal tracks preserved in rocks may be termed external molds. Internal molds, particularly of shells, are sometimes called Steinkerns. An impression is actually and external mold.

Cast--This is, in general, a duplication of the original. Casts are formed when original parts are dissolved away and the resulting space becomes filled either with sediment or mineral matter.

Compression--In general, this refers to the deformation of a structure as a result of pressure from overlying sediments. This term has been used also for casts and/or molds of leaves.

Borings and Burrows--Certain worms and clams and many other invertebrates burrow into rocks, wood, shells, and all types of sediment. These burrows are frequently preserved, especially in fine- grained rocks.

Coprolites--Fossil excrement can be sometimes give definitive knowledge about the diet of the animal concerned.

Gastroliths--These are smooth, polished stones that are often found in the abdominal cavities of the skeletons of dinosaurs. They are thought to have helped those huge animals grind up vegetable matter in their stomachs.

Gnawings--Rodents and other animals chew on bones for the calcium content and did so in the past. Gnawed bones are frequently preserved as fossils

339 posted on 09/26/2003 4:36:00 AM PDT by HalfFull
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To: trapped_in_LA
And the transitional forms are easily obsevable in the fossil record ...

Not only have transitionals been observed, but predicted in advance, yes.

... and over thrusts where thousands of square miles of "older" rock layers have slid over "younger" rock layers is easily explained.

I'm going to guess here--don't know the specific case you are trying to describe--that if any overthrust faultings are thousands of square miles in extent, the overlap area is very long and skinny. In any event, Noahic Flood geology does a lousy job of describing the sort of sequenced geological features described on this page.

340 posted on 09/26/2003 5:45:27 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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