Gross ignorance that Violence begets violence--Re: Free Republic's "Paul Hill Execution" Threads

Free Republic ^ | 9/4/03 | Dr. Brian Kopp, Vice President, Catholic Family Assoc. of America

[Polycarp]

My anger over the pathological nature of "legal" baby killing and the individuals on these threads who see Hill's crime as somehow "worse" than that of the baby killers has led me to say things on these threads that I don't really believe, just to point out the rank hypocrisy and stupidity of certain posters on these threads.

I've made my points. I'll stop using bitter sarcasm and cynicism now and state clearly:

1)Hill murdered an abortionist, and deserved the punishment meeted out to him by the state. The state has the right, recognized in 2000 years of Christian moral theology, to impose capital punishment. But In all honesty, I have reservations about the death penalty.

2) Abortion may be "legal" but it is still a crime against humanity. Though it would be unjust to try them, by ex-post-facto prosecution once abortion is again made illegal, abortionists still must pay some measure of justice for their crimes. Revoking their licences and general social ostracizing would be minimum and insufficient justice.

3) Vigiliante "justice" and ex-post-facto law cannot be tolerated in a civil society. However, neither can judicial tyrrany and legislation by judicial fiat. Civil rebellion against judicial tyranny and legislation by judicial fiat is not now unwarranted. However, it may in the future be necessary. In the context of innevitable future civil rebellion against judicial tyranny and legislation by judicial fiat it is very likely that certain individuals might engage in vigilantism and ex-post-facto justice. Don't say I didn't tell you so.

4)In the current situation of pathological legalized violence in the form of "legal" baby murdering, everyone must understand that violence will always beget more violence, outside of the abortion clinics. Expect more cases like Hill. It is axiomatic that the violence of "legal" abortion will beget further violence, usually among the intellectually/emotionally/psychologically unstable.

5) Because it is axiomatic that violence, even the violence of "legal" abortion, will always beget further violence, it is evidence of gross ignorance of human nature and Natural Law that certain folks express surprise and dismay at the actions of someone like Hill.

6) Furthermore, to express more outrage at Hill's crime than the pathological violence ("legal" abortion) that precipitated Hill's crime is a symptom of a culture that has completely lost its moral compass and is on the straight and narrow path to self destruction.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"Paul Hill is the John Brown of the 21st century."

No,
Paul Hill was a Savoranola from the 15th century.

[Poohbah]

They wouldn't shoot the mother.

Just stone her to death. (She's probably a worthless slut, anyway, so she should go to Hell--the true believers don't want to take a chance on the woman getting saved and dirtying up Heaven.)

[Woahhs]

The two really don't compare.

Your reasoning.

[CaptBlack]

Simply repeating a point that I have already dispatched does not help you advance that point. It merely makes you look like a hysterical, one-issue poster who is apparently attempting to soft-pedal the actions of a murderer by using the childish argument "well, HE started it!".

You didn't "dispatch" anything, Strela, except in your own mind. You can look over any number of my posts and see I'm far from a "one issue poster" (and, if I was, is that some kind of logical fallacy?) I'm at a loss to see where I evidence "hysteria", or anything close to the wild-eyed, shrieking, irrational spewing that the word clearly connotes. In my opinion, that's quite an unfair characterization (unless the meaning of "hysterical" has changed)

The point that I've been trying to make, and which you misconstrue because you appear to have one perspective on this thread from your war with Polycarp, is only that we have become numb to the evil of abortion which is far more pervasive and wicked than we like to think but we can be exercised almost to the point of fanaticism over one man's evil.

EVERYONE that has a shred of moral fiber in them agrees that Paul Hill deserved death. MY POINT is that, in my opinion, the common swell of opinion from many posts here that Hill did something evil, is a perfect foil against which to pose the following question, "Are people as sickened against abortion?" Because they should be. How that equates to soft-pedaling a murderer's action escapes me. I think you're letting your fight with Polycarp bleed over into my post. If I said, "Do you get as mad about fascism as you do about communism? Well, you SHOULD!" Does that somehow equate to soft-pedaling communism? That's the only point I'm making, not that Paul Hill was any kind of hero. All of my friends in my military life, at church and especially at home know that I was one of the FIRST to add my assent to the sentence of Paul Hill. Granted, you don't know me and I further grant that I might not be the best handler of the language, but I totally reject the notion that any of my posts are somehow soft-pedaling Paul Hill's evil.

I don't know Polycarp from Adam and am not on any of his ping lists. I, like so many others, just happened to see his post, it provoked what, for me, seems a perfectly reasonable moral and philosophical question (again)--why are so many so utterly filled with almost hatred for this man, Paul Hill, but seem to have little or no hatred for the evil of abortion (IF their posts are any indication of their sentiments)?

I didn't reply to Polycarp as the opening salvo in some kind of contest of posters where we attempt to "battle" one another into submission to our viewpoint. That may be your desire, to jump in and "dispatch" someone's viewpoint, as you see it, but it isn't mine.

I respectfully, but fully disagree with your assessment of my thoughts and don't see where you add anything of value to what I've said on it. I understand you feel differently and that's all good; that's what FR is all about, but your simply making assertions that certain ideas I've expressed are irrelevant or that you've shown this or that to be refuted aren't the same as proving it.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me and hope the exchange benefits us all around.

Thanks!

-steve

[semaj]

So your solution to stopping abortion is to kill abortion doctors?

No stupid, my solution would be to change the law. But since that is not likely to happen unless and until our society repents (to turn away from)of its godless ways. In the meantime we will reap what we sow. A Godless society will spiral downward into more and more violence. Just watch and see.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

He tries to square the circle so he can talk out of both sides of his mouth. This way, he can be a bridge bthe chasm between nutbags and the rest of society.

Its kind of like being an American Renaissance member, and saying "while I deplore acts of violence and racism, I can't help but notice the correctness of some of their views on culture, blah, blah, blah...."

It is a shell game, and mighty sick.

[strela]

I find it telling that no one on your side has interjected the mother into this yet. What is her position in this? Is she an accessory to "serial murder"?

What about the medical supply companies who furnish abortion clinics with equipment, supplies, etc? How about the electric company - kinda hard to run an abortion clinic with no electricity. The water company, the gas company, the phone company, the mailman for delivering mail to them - ALL ACCESSORIES TO MURDER - SHOOT 'EM ALL!

(sarcasm OFF)

[HurkinMcGurkin]

To predict violence based on an axiom is no more to condone violence than when God through His prophets predicted the destruction of Sodom and Niniveh.

Just put the shovel down, ok?

[MEGoody]

"Sorry, there are not different degrees of intentional murder."

True, there are not different degrees, but there are any number of counts of intentional murder. Paul Hill has two counts - abortionists have many more than that.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"Looks like Im not the only one who noticed his "God complex".

Yes, most others notice that God has a Polycarp complex.

[CaptBlack]

As you've no doubt learned, it's impossible to do it without appearing to justify, in some way, a cold-blooded murder.

I suppose it's only "impossible" and it's only "grandstanding" if that's what folks who want to pick a fight about it desire to see it as. For me, I have a clear conscience that that's not my intent at all.

[wideawake]

Your words say that Paul Hill is a hero.

I've said nothing of the kind.

Your actions do not emulate your hero's; therefore, you lack the courage of your own convictions.

My convictions concerning the most effective ways to end the abortion Holocaust in this country differ from Paul Hill's. Emulating Paul Hill, whom I have never called a hero, would be to betray those convictions.

I suggest that you not make further threats of this nature

Threats? My good man, I gave you good, useful advice.

I hope that in the future you will consider the hypocrisy implicit in calling someone else a coward while you yourself hide behind a screenname on an anonymous website.

[f.Christian]

Galatians...chapter 5

13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

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Gal.6

[1] Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
[2] Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

[Poohbah]

I hope that in the future you will consider the hypocrisy implicit in calling someone else a coward while you yourself hide behind a screenname on an anonymous website.

There is no hypocrisy in stating a fact (that you are a coward) in this case, as my stance is clear: I don't view Paul Hill as a hero, and I don't seek to eumlate his actions. My beliefs and actions are consistent. Yours are not.

[HurkinMcGurkin]

So much blame to place, so many people to target, so little time. And its funny that if the Hill supporters were serious about "violence begets violence", they would attack all those mentioned by you and others. Its entirely logical that without a willing woman, utility providers, medical supply companies, there would not be abortions. Heck, even the wacko environmentalists attack Hummers and not the actual people who drive or make them.

[strela]

Yes, most others notice that God has a Polycarp complex.

(splorf)

Another keyboard saved from a sudden of infusion of coffee by my trusty Keyboard Kondom.

[Conspiracy Guy]

How many people have been killed by the tree huggers. But on abortion bombings and shootings, Eric Rudolph killed one and maimed another. Hill killed what was it two. There are more that I can't recall. Name a tree hugger who killed someone. I hate tree huggers but I can't recall a killing. The French rammed and sunk a Green Peace ship that was interferring with French nuke tests.

My point is killings will not change the law and condoning them plays into the left's hand of the right being a bunch of zealots (kettle you're black, signed pot). I am against most abortions, not all. I am against people taking the law into their own hands. To be for people taking the law into their own hands leads to total chaos.

[bedolido]

"I will join this debate no more, forever! (Chief Sitting Bull-Pucky)" Your mis-attributing the paraphrased quote to the wrong Chief. It was uttered by Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce (Pierced Nose)which originally occupied the four corners region of the North West. It was made after surrendering to the army of general "Bear Coat" Miles after leading them on a chase of over 3,000 miles towards the Canadian boarder"...I shall fight no more, forever."

Thanks for the history... being from the great north west I am familar with the Nez Perce. o O (note to self... when attempting humor, point it towards people that don't know the truth)

Also, mis-attributing the paraphased quote is similar to my tag line

[strela]

Heck, even the wacko environmentalists attack Hummers and not the actual people who drive or make them.

Yeah, ALL of us are guilty for not marching on every abortion clinic in the US and reducing them to rubble. So let's just shoot everybody in the entire country.

Actually, this makes a sort of twisted sense. No people, no babies.

[Woahhs]

You never heard of "monkeywrenching?"