I wasn't mocking you. I was just trying to place it in the context of your post. There was a touch of humor, but it was intended as good natured.
What I deem to be "dangerous"...I'm fairly sure, ( based upon what you've previously wrote...) you wouldn't. It might be just the proverbial "slippery slope" of incrementalism...that I fear. You know once you've crossed the Rubicon...it's real hard to go back.
Well, this is very interesting indeed.
We seem to be making the same argument here, but approaching it from opposite sides.
My contention is that we've already crossed the threshhold, and we as a society cannot and will not go back.
Trying to turn back the clock on these things only drives you further out on a limb, and drives the bulk of society away.
I also don't think there is any such "Rubicon".
100 years ago the Suffrage movement was viewed as a "Rubicon" by the socially conservative.
Societal change is an ever advancing march.
There may be milestones along the way, but there is no great "Rubicon".
Now despite what you may be thinking, I am a reasonable person. I understand you fear that all hell may just break loose at any moment, and I feel it too at times.
But what I'm saying is you are fighting against something that you cannot stop. You are fighting against the very march of history.
I am simply advocating that Republicans in general and conservatives in particular let some of these issues go, at least for now, and concentrate on what we *can* change. Stop shooting ourselves in the foot over some politician's position on abortion when we all know damn well it doesn't matter what he thinks personally, he has no power over the issue and it is not going to change at this point.
It's like Republicans keep losing elections over this red herring issue but the conservatives don't care because they are going down as martyrs!
Of course I don't "know" you well enough to label you a socialist yet. :O) But from a purely anecdotal perspective..it wouldn't be intellectually honest of me...to say that you didn't certainly have some characteristics of one. Nothing personal...just a incomplete observation...at this point.
Well, lets get something straight. Socialism is an economic system that consists of partial or total wealth redistribution through a large bureaucratic apparatus.
It is Communism-lite, both of which being the epitome of Big Government. Your take on me seems to put me leaning much more in the direction of an anarchist. Anarchists believe in NO government. Communists and Anarchists are polar opposites. I of course consider myself pretty mainstream in my social views in reality, though. Perhaps slightly more libertarian than some, but that's it.
As far as demanding that we just accept certain behavior, just accept irresponsibility....I will never do that. I think your position is wrong, and ultimately very dangerous.
Just which behavior specifically?
Premarital sex? Shooting up smack? Playing video games and watching TV?
It would probably aid the discussion greatly to approach the individual issues that we see as central.
It would be my pleasure to expound on the subject with you in private...if you are willing. If not...I certainly understand.
It is a tempting offer, though I must warn you, I am set in my beliefs and they will not change. That much I can assure you.
And I should also warn you, I have studied world religions and universal symbolism quite extensively. This includes things like esoteric interpritation such as the Kabbalah, suffism, and Hermetica.
My approach is completely opposite from yours, and I don't think we are compatable for such a discussion.
I look at the larger evolutions of belief systems, how the beliefs came to enter the culture, and what was the benefit to the culture by introducing it. Things like that.
I would just end up telling you that that you have a political revolt against the Babylonians to ultimately thank for monotheism and you have the Zoroastrians to thank for Satan, Heaven, and Hell. I would also probably tell you that you are mispronoucing YHWH.
It would only frustrate you, I'm sure.
"I wasn't mocking you. I was just trying to place it in the context of your post. There was a touch of humor, but it was intended as good natured."
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As that portion of my post to you was also.......No ham, no fowl.
"Well, this is very interesting indeed. We seem to be making the same argument here, but approaching it from opposite sides. My contention is that we've already crossed the threshhold, and we as a society cannot and will not go back. Trying to turn back the clock on these things only drives you further out on a limb, and drives the bulk of society away."
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Well....we disagree. I know that people can change..and idea's and ideals do change, and have changed. And changed for the better. Frankly this may as well be my central point...those that have IMO...thrown in the towel..sold their principles, and values for a "win". Those that know what's right and true....but have compromised themselves...for of ALL things...a political win.
I also don't think there is any such "Rubicon". 100 years ago the Suffrage movement was viewed as a "Rubicon" by the socially conservative. Societal change is an ever advancing march. There may be milestones along the way, but there is no great "Rubicon".
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Sure there are "Rubicon's"...In life, in careers, in relationships, in legal precedents, in governments...etc...Some may call the forming of this Republic a "rubicon"..the fall of Rome a "rubicon". The Clinton era, a "rubicon". Is there no issue that you wouldn't "draw that proverbial line in the sand" on?
Now despite what you may be thinking, I am a reasonable person. I understand you fear that all hell may just break loose at any moment, and I feel it too at times. But what I'm saying is you are fighting against something that you cannot stop. You are fighting against the very march of history.
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No....I believe it can be stopped. But not the way you are advocating..not by giving up...( although I believe you are more Democrat...in your speech and thought..than Republican..so..I would understand you just going along with it..and not wanting to fight it too much...) not by voting/promoting people such as Arnold.
Fwiw, I reserve the "right" to be wrong about you...and about Arnold. But...with the available info that I have at the moment....this is my opinion.
I am simply advocating that Republicans in general and conservatives in particular let some of these issues go, at least for now, and concentrate on what we *can* change. Stop shooting ourselves in the foot over some politician's position on abortion when we all know damn well it doesn't matter what he thinks personally, he has no power over the issue and it is not going to change at this point. It's like Republicans keep losing elections over this red herring issue but the conservatives don't care because they are going down as martyrs!
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You know you have this type of "Talk" down..and it's awfully close to, and resembles the Dems in the halls of Congress preaching "Bipartisanship..!!" If I said it before...and I'll say it again...you are using the very tactics of the left...You yourself said you didn't vote in the last CA election....because you were "embarrassed, and unmoved" Yet you implore your "fellow" Republicans to vote in this election for a guy many of them don't agree with..and maybe would be "embarrassed and unmoved"...to vote for. What's that saying....."do as I say, and not as I do"...???? ( g )
Well, lets get something straight. Socialism is an economic system that consists of partial or total wealth redistribution through a large bureaucratic apparatus. It is Communism-lite, both of which being the epitome of Big Government. Your take on me seems to put me leaning much more in the direction of an anarchist. Anarchists believe in NO government. Communists and Anarchists are polar opposites. I of course consider myself pretty mainstream in my social views in reality, though. Perhaps slightly more libertarian than some, but that's it.
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Well...okay. Anarchist never entered my mind....although many socialist's have anarchists hearts. lol!! Unfortunately...you may be correct on your mainstream views....Although I'm suspect of the "data" I've seen to quantify this.
It is a tempting offer, though I must warn you, I am set in my beliefs and they will not change. That much I can assure you. And I should also warn you, I have studied world religions and universal symbolism quite extensively. This includes things like esoteric interpritation such as the Kabbalah, suffism, and Hermetica.
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So...here we are again. We've got post after post from you...lamenting, cajoling, debating, begging??? ( g ) those dadgum "one issue" dangerous vast-right-wing unmoving Republicans that won't "change" and vote for Arnold..But you of course can "be set in your beliefs and will not change.." How can this be?
BTW...I was once not unlike you in my spiritual trek.....I'm living proof..people can change their minds, and change their hearts.
My approach is completely opposite from yours, and I don't think we are compatable for such a discussion. I look at the larger evolutions of belief systems, how the beliefs came to enter the culture, and what was the benefit to the culture by introducing it. Things like that.
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Maybe I'm not as a "complete" thinker..as yourself. Or like you said...maybe it's my approach. We do look thru a glass darkly...much of the time. Although it's clear to me now.....that you like many...have some agenda's. Not saying that they are good, or that they are bad. Just that you have them...and some of them come across strongly. Hey, I've got mine too.....hehehe.
I would just end up telling you that that you have a political revolt against the Babylonians to ultimately thank for monotheism and you have the Zoroastrians to thank for Satan, Heaven, and Hell. I would also probably tell you that you are mispronoucing YHWH. It would only frustrate you, I'm sure.
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Well....if I said "I love Jeshua" to most Americans..they would say "What the heck are you saying"? Or ask me if that was my wife's name..??? Ha!! So..here in American we commonly speak in the "common" language...And God is generally referred to as...er well, God. Of course you know all this...and I suppose you are joking around. Ha!!
I'm not quite sure if you are trying to overwhelm me and impress me....(and I am slightly impressed, but not a bit surprised..) :O) But like I've mentioned..and I have empathy for your positions...but I've done alot of the same mental gymnastics that you have done, attempted, completed, etc..etc..etc.. And I came to a conclusion..as apparently you have to. If I'm wrong...I've got nothing to lose.
Regards,