[Maelstrom]

Here...let's try this again.

I find it difficult to believe that you fell off the turnip truck 2 days ago.

"Or maybe it has nothing to do with politics at all. Ever consider that? "

Yes, and discarded it because of knowledge.

"Perhaps it is just the basic progression of society. California has always been on the cutting edge of American cultural change."

One could only hold this belief if one accepts that the next stage of American cultural change is that of a Third World Nation banana republic. Now, I'll grant you this might be true. Conservatives aren't lapping dogs to roll over on command, so get ready for a fight.

"Liberalisation is part of the natural cycle of civilizations. That is a historical fact, proven without fail. "

BINGO! Admin moderators are we through yet?
First: This isn't a part of the cycle of civilizations.
Second: This isn't "liberalization", it's authoritarian socialism.
Third: This isn't natural. It's imposed by authoritarian organizations subverting nations from within. WITNESS: Russia, China, Korea, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia...and it was interrupted in El Salvador by R. Reagan.

"Some of us recognize this and understand what it takes to at the very least remain viable in an ever-changing society."

You aren't part of society. Very much like the communists who spawned your broken logic, you're attempting to lead people into a direction we're quite unwilling to go. We know where this road leads.

I had a conversation with a fellow like yourself in the halls of a University. I questioned him about his economic and social values and then I scoffed: "What makes you think, once you've succeeded that you'll be in charge. Someone like me is more likely to be in charge because I know how this system works. I've proven you don't."

[DrMartinVonNostrand]

I find it difficult to believe that you fell off the turnip truck 2 days ago.

That is because I didn't. I have spent a lifetime developing my political and philosophical beliefs. I don't need YOU or this forum to introduce me to these things.

One could only hold this belief if one accepts that the next stage of American cultural change is that of a Third World Nation banana republic. Now, I'll grant you this might be true. Conservatives aren't lapping dogs to roll over on command, so get ready for a fight.

I hate to have to break this to you, but it is third world counties that are governed by religious sectarianism. Just look at the middle east and Central and South America for examples.

BINGO! Admin moderators are we through yet?
First: This isn't a part of the cycle of civilizations.
Second: This isn't "liberalization", it's authoritarian socialism.
Third: This isn't natural. It's imposed by authoritarian organizations subverting nations from within. WITNESS: Russia, China, Korea, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia...and it was interrupted in El Salvador by R. Reagan.

You are the one who now seems to want the Authoritarian powers of the Admin moderators to stifle my individual freedom of thought and expression now. Just as you are the one who advocates Authoritaran Government to regulate the free activities and cultural life of the American people. You should take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.

I have said NOTHING about socialism. I have only talked about the evolution of American attitudes on culture.

We DO in fact live in one of the most liberal societies in the world. Communism is NOT liberal. It is oppressive. It is the polar opposite of liberal. I think you are confusing the definition of "liberalism" with the quasi-socialist political movement of the left-wing Liberals. There is a world of difference here.

True liberalism, in the definition that I am using is the tendancy of western culture through out the ages to relax its Authoritarian grip of religion and social mores, and continually embrace new freedoms for individuals. This should be patently obvious in the form of the Bill of Rights, property rights, abolition, sufferage, voting rights act, the civil rights movement, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and yes, the progressive acceptance of "alternative lifestyles".

And seeing just how dense you are, I now have to point out that when I use the word "progressive" here and in previous posts, it is in the standard definition of "gradual change in steady incriments over time", not the Progressive movement of 1924.

You aren't part of society. Very much like the communists who spawned your broken logic, you're attempting to lead people into a direction we're quite unwilling to go. We know where this road leads.

Oh, now I'm a COMMUNIST too..?

You have really crossed the line on that one you inbred throwback troglodyte scumbag.
I went from being a mere "RINO" to a Marxist now for supporting Republican Gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger!

Pat Buchanan formed his own party because we've been trying to force out the cancer in ours such as you two. I strongly suggest you join him. Now.