Pheobe Debates The Theory of Evolution

Original scene from the show... Friends. ^ | NA | NA

[Mr.Atos]

I was just lisening to Medved debating Creationism with Athiests on the air. I found it interesting that while Medved argued his side quite effectively from the standpoint of faith, his opponents resorted to condescension and beliitled him with statements like, "when it rains, is that God crying?" I was reminded of the best (at least most amusing)debate that I have ever heard on the subject of Creationism vs Evolution, albeit a fictional setting. It occurred on the show, Friends of all places between the characters Pheobe (The Hippy) and Ross (The Paleontologist). It went like this...

Pheebs: Okay...it's very faint, but I can still sense him in the building...GO INTO THE LIGHT MR. HECKLES!!

Ross: Whoa, whoa, whoa. What, uh, you don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: Nah. Not really. Ross: You don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: I don't know. It's just, ya know, monkeys, Darwin, ya know, it's a, it's a nice story. I just think it's a little too easy.

Ross: Uh, excuse me. Evolution is not for you to buy, Phoebe. Evolution is scientific fact. Like, like, the air we breathe, like gravity... Pheebs: Uh, okay, don't get me started on gravity.

Ross: You uh, you don't believe in gravity? Pheebs: Well, it's not so much that ya know, like I don't *believe* in it, ya know. It's just...I don't know. Lately I get the feeling that I'm not so much being pulled down, as I am being pushed.

Ross: How can you NOT BELIEVE in evolution? Pheebs: [shrugs] I unh-huh...Look at this funky shirt!!

Ross: Well, there ya go. Pheebs: Huh. So now, the REAL question is: who put those fossils there, and why...?

Ross: OPPOSABLE THUMBS!! Without evolution, how do YOU explain OPPOSABLE THUMBS?!? Pheebs: Maybe the overlords needed them to steer their spacecrafts!

Pheebs: Uh-oh! Scary Scientist Man!

Pheebs: Okay, Ross? Could you just open your mind like, *this* much?? Okay? Now wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the Earth was flat? And up until what, like, fifty years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess o' crap came out! Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny, tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?!?

Pheebs: I can't believe you caved. Ross: What? Pheebs: You just ABANDONED your whole belief system! I mean, before, I didn't agree with you, but at least I respected you. Ross: But uh.. Pheebs: Yeah...how...how are you gonna go in to work tomorrow? How...how are you gonna face the other science guys? How...how are you gonna face yourself? Oh! [Ross runs away dejected] Pheebs: That was fun. So who's hungry?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for the much needed vote of confidence! Hugs!!!

[gore3000]

Ordinarily I would agree with you that private Freep mails ought not be publicly disclosed.

We partially agree on the above. I would say that they should never be disclosed without the other party's consent. While I agree that the statements in it (which cannot be verified by others - which is part of the problem with disclosing freepmails) are troubling, I still must respectfully insist that such actions are wrong.

Now what has been done cannot be undone. That is why I have been insisting that this matter has been handled very badly. Evolutionists, for which the clause which was violated was inserted, should not have engaged in that discussion. They should have said this is not a subject to be discussed on this thread and refused to engage in discussion of it. Frankly, I was surprised that such a discussion was going on and was beginning to think that it was a proper one since no one had objected to it for a long series of posts. I therefore think that in the future a calm but stern statement such as 'this is not a subject of discussion on this thread' should be used when such things happen in the future and all of us who have signed on to the agreement should refuse to discuss it.

[Aric2000]

I therefore think that in the future a calm but stern statement such as 'this is not a subject of discussion on this thread' should be used when such things happen in the future and all of us who have signed on to the agreement should refuse to discuss it.

I can agree to that, sounds very reasonable.

[Alamo-Girl]

I join in agreement with the two of you that the willing ought to refuse to engage in prohibited discussion with a gentle but firm statement.

[gore3000]

However, if any of the parties who signed on to this agreement believes this assertion to be true - then I strongly suggest we nullify the agreement, y'all appoint a new mediator and re-vote the agreement.

No willing party should ever doubt the integrity of what they signed nor shall I tolerate having my character besmirched.

Please calm down. The agreement seems to be working somewhat. Such things are liable to occur especially at the beginning. Hopefully it will pass. I for one have praised your actions on this agreement and continue to do so under difficult circumstances. I know that I have disagreed with some actions and some decisions since but as I said in my previous post what's done is done and what we need to do is make it work properly in the future.

[gore3000]

Actually, the word "revolve" implies returning to place, which neither the earth nor the moon do. Their path is more of a wobbly line.

Now that the semantics have been dealt with will you kindly state whether you deny that the Earth goes around the sun (using whatever term you choose) has been scientifically proven?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the encouragement, gore3000! But truly, if anyone is unsettled by the assertion then let us resolve it at once rather than let it fester. Hugs!!!

[PatrickHenry]

However, if any of the parties who signed on to this agreement believes this assertion to be true - then I strongly suggest we nullify the agreement, y'all appoint a new mediator and re-vote the agreement.

I have total confidence in your integrity, A-Girl. If I've misjudged you, then it means I have no powers of judgment at all, and I should drop out of all human activities. I didn't, and I won't. The agreement stands, as far as I'm concerned.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very, very much! I really needed your personal vote of confidence on this. HUGS!!!

[Aric2000]

Just to clear the air a bit.

When a certain unmentionable poster sent me that Freepmail last night, I sent a copy of it, along with my comments, which were also copied, to a select number of people, then I sent it privately to A-G, and then I also sent it privately to Gore3000 after our little spat about some things to do with the subject at hand.

So, just wanted to clear the air and put it out there for all to see.

Alamo-Girl, we had incredible suspicions and MANY discussions between ourselves that this indeed was a trap by that same unmentionable, whereas he would get us to sign on to such an agreement, but somehow free himself from any such constraints. Then he would use the agreement against us. As you can see our suspicions were born out, but I never dreamed in a thousand years that he would be silly enough to admit it in a freepmail. That had to be one of the stupidest things he has ever done, as far as I am concerned.

This is also why I put a number of posts telling people that any person that was NOT part of the agreement, that critiqued our keeping with the agreement, should be ignored.

It is something that that person has and will use as a weapon against us. He tried it a number of times last night, and I am sure will continue on that same vein if he can.

This agreement was set up as a trap from the getgo, and we ALL knew it, but with your evenhandedness, and PH's taking the bull by the horns so to speak, we created an agreement that we could ALL in good faith sign on to.

Then, as expected, the certain unmentionable threw a stink so that he would NOT be covered by said agreement.

So, he ends up with an agreement that ties the rest of us up in our behavior, but does NOT constrain him in the least, and as you can see from last night, he took full advantage of that fact and went on MAJOR attack mode.

BUT, you MUST be apprised of this fact A-G, we went into this with our eyes WIDE open, we knew EXACTLY what said poster was up to, and signed on anyway, we discussed said poster and his motives MANY times via Freepmail, and knew what he was going to do before he did it. Said poster is nothing if not predictable.

SO, again, we went into this with our eyes WIDE open, yes, there was a conspiracy, but we knew about it from the getgo, and signed on anyway.

Thank you again for ALL of your hard work, it was done in good faith on your part, and in good faith on ours.

We like this agreement and plan on sticking to it.

I hope this calms any fears that you may have had.

You have nothing but respect from ALL of us for all of your hard work, there is only one poster here that tried to use you for his own ends, and we all know who he is.

The agreement worked despite his goals, and will continue to work despite his goals.

You have done well, the agreement is excellent, and we are going to stick to it.

I have copied a lot of people to this post, hopefully they will get on here and confirm what I have just said.

[PatrickHenry]

Everyone can read; and everything was negotiated out in the open. It could not have been more fair. If my position had lost the vote, I would have either dropped out, or (very reluctantly) taken my medicine and gone along with the majority. Either way, I would have accepted the results like a man. I wouldn't have blamed "the system," and I certainly wouldn't have blamed you. In this little drama, everyone is behaving very much in accordance with his character. It's all crystal clear, and you have no explaining to do.

[Alamo-Girl]

Jeepers! Thank you so much for all the background information and for the vote of confidence in the agreement and in me personally.

[VadeRetro]

BUT, you MUST be apprised of this fact A-G, we went into this with our eyes WIDE open, we knew EXACTLY what said poster was up to, and signed on anyway, we discussed said poster and his motives MANY times via Freepmail, and knew what he was going to do before he did it. Said poster is nothing if not predictable.

Exactly. The idea that any of us actually considered ALS to be a legally competent adult is ridiculous. The agreement stands on its own merits.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing all of that with me! It is especially significant to me, to know how you would have felt and reacted had your initiative in the end, been voted down.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

No one who followed the activity of putting together the agreement could accuse you of doing anything dishonest or backhanded.

You did a great job of putting it together and we should all be on our knees thanking you for your efforts. ;)

Thanks again!

[CobaltBlue]

I confirm what you said, and would also like to add the observation that regardless of the provocation, I will continue to use VI.

To repeat my observation about engaging certain people, insanity consists of doing the same thing over and over again, hoping that the result will be different this time.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for the vote of confidence! But, please no knees because I'd have to get on mine as well to thank all of you - and my knees aren't in very good condition (LOL!)

[VadeRetro]

Disclosure of freepmails is a violation of FreeRepublic rules.

False. My own genuine understanding is that any sort of mail is the property of the recipient. Thus, use of freepmails for taunting, extortion, or any duplicitous purpose is likely to blow up in your face. This is as it should be.

[Aracelis]

Seems we pretty much agree on the basic facts as to what this 'mutation' does. What we disagree on is (1) whether it is beneficial and (2) whether it verifies the theory of evolution. As to (1) losing a 1/4 of the children does not seem very beneficial to me. In addition it must be remembered that people without this 'protective' mutation nevertheless survive in malaria infested regions. So this is not necessary for survival.

Yes, we do agree on the function of this mutation. Thank you.

However, as we are discussing "survival of the fittest", I think sickle-cell anemia falls well within this criteria. Natural selection does not always result in a decrease in genetic variation. If this were so, then balanced polymorphism would not be seen in populations such as the Black-Bellied Seedcrackers of Cameroon, West Africa.

In the case of sickle-cell anemia, heterozygotes have the distinct advantage, with up to 35% of the population in a region where malaria is evident displaying heterozygote resistance, with only about 4% of the population being homozygous and therefore afflicted with the disease. Indeed, other individuals without the Hb-S allele do survive, but I'm sure you would agree that living organisms have a variety of survival mechanisms available to them. Humans do not overcome the flu, for instance, solely because of antibodies...fever, nutritional status, age, etc. all contribute to the survival of the individual.

As to (2) it cannot be said to verify evolution because it destroys normal operation of the organism. It does not create anything new. Evolution needs lots of new stuff to be true, not the destruction of stuff.

Hmmm...I'm not sure I follow you on this point. "Normal" operation of an organism is survival, and the heterozygous resistance to malaria conferred by the Hb-S allele clearly facilitates survival in these individuals.

[PatrickHenry]

It is especially significant to me, to know how you would have felt and reacted had your initiative in the end, been voted down.

Truly, if the voting went the other way, it would have been a big disappointment, and I'm not sure how I would have reacted (dropping out or going along). But taking it out on you just wasn't among my options.