Pheobe Debates The Theory of Evolution

Original scene from the show... Friends. ^ | NA | NA

[Mr.Atos]

I was just lisening to Medved debating Creationism with Athiests on the air. I found it interesting that while Medved argued his side quite effectively from the standpoint of faith, his opponents resorted to condescension and beliitled him with statements like, "when it rains, is that God crying?" I was reminded of the best (at least most amusing)debate that I have ever heard on the subject of Creationism vs Evolution, albeit a fictional setting. It occurred on the show, Friends of all places between the characters Pheobe (The Hippy) and Ross (The Paleontologist). It went like this...

Pheebs: Okay...it's very faint, but I can still sense him in the building...GO INTO THE LIGHT MR. HECKLES!!

Ross: Whoa, whoa, whoa. What, uh, you don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: Nah. Not really. Ross: You don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: I don't know. It's just, ya know, monkeys, Darwin, ya know, it's a, it's a nice story. I just think it's a little too easy.

Ross: Uh, excuse me. Evolution is not for you to buy, Phoebe. Evolution is scientific fact. Like, like, the air we breathe, like gravity... Pheebs: Uh, okay, don't get me started on gravity.

Ross: You uh, you don't believe in gravity? Pheebs: Well, it's not so much that ya know, like I don't *believe* in it, ya know. It's just...I don't know. Lately I get the feeling that I'm not so much being pulled down, as I am being pushed.

Ross: How can you NOT BELIEVE in evolution? Pheebs: [shrugs] I unh-huh...Look at this funky shirt!!

Ross: Well, there ya go. Pheebs: Huh. So now, the REAL question is: who put those fossils there, and why...?

Ross: OPPOSABLE THUMBS!! Without evolution, how do YOU explain OPPOSABLE THUMBS?!? Pheebs: Maybe the overlords needed them to steer their spacecrafts!

Pheebs: Uh-oh! Scary Scientist Man!

Pheebs: Okay, Ross? Could you just open your mind like, *this* much?? Okay? Now wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the Earth was flat? And up until what, like, fifty years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess o' crap came out! Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny, tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?!?

Pheebs: I can't believe you caved. Ross: What? Pheebs: You just ABANDONED your whole belief system! I mean, before, I didn't agree with you, but at least I respected you. Ross: But uh.. Pheebs: Yeah...how...how are you gonna go in to work tomorrow? How...how are you gonna face the other science guys? How...how are you gonna face yourself? Oh! [Ross runs away dejected] Pheebs: That was fun. So who's hungry?

[js1138]

Actually, many dogs will nip at children who are almost, but not quite the same size as the dog. Its a natural competitive thing, not intended to hurt, merely to test for status within the pack. But people with large dogs and visiting children need to think about this.

[Aric2000]

ROFL!!

Good morning, you are in rare form, must have gotten some good sleep last night.

Clear out your prostate or something? ;)

[js1138]

My son, a Florida baby, would say, "not yet".

[RightWingNilla]

Good morning, you are in rare form, must have gotten some good sleep last night.

Morning Aric. Just cranky from all the rain here this week.

[js1138]

Only its kids are re-pugmant.

[BMCDA]

What I had in mind were endogenous retroviruses. Were they inserted before or after the fall?

[bondserv]

First of all, on logical grounds, because perfection, by definition, does not degrade.

If you stick your fist into the wedding cake, damage has been done. (that is reality).

Second, on observational grounds, selection and wastage remove non-viable copies, just as the CRC check and redundency removes errors from computer data transfers.

Retransmission of a copy results in degradation of signal. If errors are induced into a signal, the original packet is retransmitted, not a copy of the original (Which God doesn't do, if he did we would never die being that He made us "very good"). There is also a time to live function in TCPIP protocols to eliminate successive error filled retransmissions and gumming up of the network.

[bondserv]

The curse introduced continuous noise into the signal, while the original design is so incredible that we witness only minor errors that are a result of the curse. Because of free will God does not continue to purify our genetic blueprint, hence bad backs, cancer and diseases.

It was a sad day for God when Adam chose death.

[bondserv]

The curse introduced continuous noise into the signal, while the original design is so incredible that we witness only minor errors that are a result of the curse. Because of free will God does not continue to purify our genetic blueprint, hence bad backs, cancer and diseases.

It was a sad day for God when Adam chose death.

[js1138]

Retransmission of a copy results in degradation of signal.

Depends on the protocol and how important signal integrity is to the system design. In the case of life, there are far more copies made than necessary to continue the message. Errors are detected by selection, and defective copies are discarded. Sometimes an error results in superior or similar viability. But no error is ever maintained in the system that would prevent further replication, since part of the integrity check is the ability to construct a replicator.

[js1138]

Retransmission of a copy results in degradation of signal.

Noise in the signal is irrelevant. The system disgards bad copies.

[js1138]

It als discards them.

[js1138]

Think of selection as a spell checker. I would be out of here. ;^)

[bondserv]

Noise in the signal is irrelevant. The system disgards bad copies.

You only say that because you have all of your fingers and toes.

[js1138]

You only say that because you have all of your fingers and toes.

No, I got my masters in Special Ed. I've met lots of folks with missing thumbs, hands, arms, or defective intelligence. It's sad, but over the long haul, those defects caused by genes rather than environmental factors, are discarded. There are bad recessive genes that maintain a relatively low level in the gene pool, but they cannot ever reach a high level because they interfere with survival and reproduction.

There are also defects like sickle-cell trait that have some selective advantage in tropical climates.

But genes do not degrade over time. Reproduction is digital, with layers and layers of protection against degradation.

But, of course, no protection against change that is neutral or advantageous to reproduction.

[bondserv]

The bumper sticker I referred to really exists; it is really used by parents of handicapped children; and it is really addressed to your assertion that birth defects are the result of original sin.

No one in this current world can escape the effects of the curse that was brought on by the Original Sin. Jesus following Christians, can have extreme difficulty financially and health wise. (God would protect us from these issues if not for it violating His commitment to preserve Free Will in the creatures He created in His image).

Personal sin has consequences for believers and non-believers, but doesn't necessarily directly correlate with things like birth defects, although it obviously can.

[js1138]

The issue here (degradation) is best illustrated by examining what happens in the growth of an individual vs what happens in reproduction. The cells that produce out adult bodies divide pretty much a fixed number of times. There are chromosome errors occurring at during these divisions that eventually lead to cellular death. Enough cells dying and the body dies.

Reproduction, viewed as a digital copying system, handles this differently. First, the copying process itself is less error prone. Second, far more copies are made than needed to reproduce the individual. Third, non-viable copies are discarded by the system. Fourth, defective copies capable of surviving and reproducing, do so.

[js1138]

No one in this current world can escape the effects of the curse that was brought on by the Original Sin.

Does this indicate the end of the discussion of signal degradation?

[bondserv]

Does this indicate the end of the discussion of signal degradation?

I am in the data communications training field, and like you, find this discussion very applicable.

I am sorry I have been a little distracted, I have been out of town this week and my wife and children are occupying most of my direct attention. I am finding your posts very engrossing and plan to analyse them more thoroughly when I have more available thinking time.

Thanks for your interesting discussion. I apologize again, and will attempt to respond with more thoughtfulness soon.

[BMCDA]

And how come that they confirm the common ancestry of the great apes and humans for instance?