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To: JesseShurun
If you want to believe that mankind is moral and "good" when left to his own devices, you are in a dreamland.

That's not what I believe. I believe that the classically liberal free society, where political and economic freedoms, and corresponding responsibilities, make citizens stakeholders in both good order, and in the maintenance of their mutually recognized, and therefore commonly held, liberties, is also the society that produces the best realization of morality.

But I certainly don't believe that this kind of good society is enevitable because of inherent human goodness. Far from it. The liberal society was in fact a hard won historical acheivement which took hundreds of years. It is entirely possible that the whole globe could have ended up as wracked with brutality and despotism as most of Africa, the Middle East, and parts of Asia are today.

724 posted on 07/10/2003 12:58:33 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis
But I certainly don't believe that this kind of good society is enevitable because of inherent human goodness.

Then how do you propose to enact the society and keep it running? You left out religious freedom and once evolution or whatever Godless ideal you want your citizens to emulate is in effect, all you have is a society like Communist Russia, North Korea, etc. As the changes occur in the US, and the Biblical moral code is less and less instilled in individuals to give them a thirst for true Spirituality, you will need more and more prisons and that's happening now. Pretty soon, the mentality will be us against them, happening now. Pretty soon, mass murder will follow, and as human history well shows, this will start with the poor, the looked down upon, whoever makes a convenient scapegoat.

You remind me of a person who says, I won't bring my son up to go to Church or to read the Word of God, I'll let him grow up and then he can choose for hinself.

Well Johnny is choosing for himself, his religion is himself, drugs, Rock and Roll, satanism, homosexuality, you name it. Your great society, under no God, is headed for chaos

725 posted on 07/10/2003 1:11:50 AM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: Stultis
The only people now in the US and Canada that have no protection from persecution are Christians. A few years ago, and I think it was the columnist, Ellen Goodman, who made the statement, that if Christians can't get along in the world, "something should be done". (If it wasn't her, I apologize to her.)

People are thinking it. We're troublesome, just won't get in line. Something "must be done" with people like that.

Just what do you think "this something will be?" Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, as you say. Waco, Ruby Ridge, those "crazies" ie, those different, must be dealt with.

People like the ones posting here, want to keep alive and spread the myth that believers are somehow inferior, what adjectives do we see here? "Drooling, knuckle-draggers, whackos, etc, and they like to infer that we are unintelligent and why? Because we refuse to believe what they believe, that's all. They are intolerant and they suffer from snobbism, as if their spiritual state of unbelief has set them above others in some superior way. They have ben set apart, but not in the way that they believe. They are in spiritual terms, natural men, incapable of true spiritual knowledge. I can't imagine a worse state to be in, but that's me

728 posted on 07/10/2003 1:42:48 AM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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