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To: RadioAstronomer
What if the book is wrong? Is it right just because "it" says it's right? So again I would be curious how you discern that it is correct as apposed to say; Norse mythology?

I wonder if this is an honest question or if you are just being argumentative. If the latter, then there is no point in discussing the topic with you as it is a waste of my time. For this initial question, however, I will assume you are an objective truth seeker and answer your question.

The bible is reliable for the following reasons:

1. Manuscript evidence: There are over 15,000 manuscripts of the OT and NT which prove that the bible has been preserved over the centuries (compare that to manuscripts for any other ancient work, yet the veracity and historicity of these works is not in doubt). Some fragments of the gospels date back to within 1 generation of the events described; Paul's epistles are undisputable dated to the early 50s A.D. The Isaiah scroll from Dead Sea Scrolls matches almost precisely the book of Isaiah from the masoretic text (1000 A.D.)

2. Archeology: Over 5,000 artifacts and finds have confirmed the truth of biblical passages but not one find has conclusively controverted any bible passage. The true Mt. Sinai (Mt. Jabal Al-Waz) was found in Saudi Arabia recently (interestingly, the top 3rd of the mtn is scorched black).

3. Prophecy: Hundreds of prophecies written before the birth of Christ (e.g. Isaiah, Micah, Psalms) were 100% literally fulfilled in Christ (e.g. place of birth, virgin birth, manner of death, atonement, resurrection, etc.). In fact, Paul and the other apostles preached Christ from the Scriptures BEFORE there was a New Testament. He preached Christ from the Old Testament - the jewish scriptures which foretold of the events.

4. The life of Jesus Christ Himself: Jesus Christ claimed He was the Son of God come to take away the sins of the world and rise again from the dead. He made the wildest claims possible, yet is considered to be a "good man and wise teacher" even by skeptics. No one who makes the claims He made can be considered a good man or wise teacher. He was either who He claimed to be, or he was a liar, or he was a lunatic. Those are the only options.

5. Witnesses to the Ressurrection: The disciples were cowards one day (they ran when Jesus was arrested) and lions of faith the very next (after seeing the risen Savior) and all died for their faith. Who would die for a lie knowing it is a lie? One might die for a lie believing it is the truth but no one would die for a lie knowing it is a lie. One day Paul was the chief persecutor of Christians, the next day he became perhaps the most notable Christian in history. The disciples are exposed for their mistakes and fallibility which also lends to the veracity of the passages. How to adequately explain these things if the Resurrection isn't true?

Can you name any other religious text that can make any of these claims?

4,152 posted on 07/18/2003 8:06:52 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: exmarine
The bible is reliable for the following reasons:
3. Prophecy: Hundreds of prophecies written before the birth of Christ (e.g. Isaiah, Micah, Psalms) were 100% literally fulfilled in Christ (e.g. place of birth, virgin birth, manner of death, atonement, resurrection, etc)


At the risk of being argumentative, my simple rebuttal to this statement is, "False." "Hundreds were 100% literally fulfilled?" That's a strong statement, one that is rarely made regarding anything but math. And speaking of math, your statement twists it a bit, no? You're saying the prophecies that were fulfilled were indeed fulfilled. Yeah, so? what of the ones that weren't? What of the ones that were time and time again in different eras fulfilled that, in totality, mean(t) nothing at all? (how many people have been the great satan now? 15?) Bible prophecy has, thankfully, become a silly sideshow these days, to most people. Yes, even most christians.

The disciples were cowards one day ... and all died for their faith. Who would die for a lie knowing it is a lie? One might die for a lie believing it is the truth but no one would die for a lie knowing it is a lie.

Fair enough, but what does this prove? I can think of 19 a-holes who died for their lie a couple Septembers ago. And how many blow themselves up for their lie in Israel every week or so. Not sure what this proves, other than humans are capable of some pretty strong faith.
4,203 posted on 07/18/2003 10:42:49 AM PDT by whattajoke
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