Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[balrog666]

And god of rats. And god of cockroaches. And god of hamsters. And god of snakes. And god of kangaroos. And god of polio. And god of AIDS. And god of chimpanzees. And god of cholera. And god of ebola. And god of (some) humans.

Placemarker.

[ThinkPlease]

Trolls don't like to have discussions placemarker.

[AndrewC]

So you accept that there was disease, predation and the like prior to the fall.

I accept metaphor for what it is, metaphor.

[AndrewC]

Well, it was accepted that there was "a relationship", based on sequence comparisons... ;)

... etc.

Very good! See we do agree.

[longshadow]

"Night of the Tractionless Trolls" placemarker

[PatrickHenry]

Creationism and ID are to science what Helen Thomas and Hillary Clinton are to womanhood.

[AndrewC]

Oh, quit your bawling.

OH PLEASE, GIMME A BREAK!!!!!

How many times do I have to see:

1. 1⁷²⁰ derisive comments
2. Blue-skipping placemarker
3. Troll pictures
4. etc.,etc.,etc.

You are getting back some of what has been dished out by Darwininians for well over a year.

[general_re]

Perhaps we do. Taking the next logical step, even if it were horizontal transfer of flagellar genes from some other source, as you argued for, that would still seem to obviate the need for a designer of the flagellum - horizontal transfer being a naturalistic, materialistic means for genetic transfers, after all. Which returns me to my original point - I presume you mean "designer" in a larger, more general sense, rather than implying one in the specific case of the flagellum...

[general_re]

...horizontal transfer being a naturalistic, materialistic means for genetic transfers change...

[AndrewC]

that would still seem to obviate the need for a designer of the flagellum - horizontal transfer being a naturalistic, materialistic means for genetic transfers, after all. Which returns me to my original point - I presume you mean "designer" in a larger, more general sense, rather than implying one in the specific case of the flagellum...

No on the obviate, yes on the larger sense. The library has books. The library did not write the books.

On the larger sense, it does not preclude the more limited sense.

Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?

[js1138]

 

1. 1⁷²⁰ derisive comments
2. Blue-skipping placemarker
3. Troll pictures
4. etc.,etc.,etc.

You are getting back some of what has been dished out by Darwininians for well over a year.

What is it we are getting back that is equivalent to unacknowledged errors (false Gould bibliographies, we don't see light, etc.)

First of all there are no substanitive errors in what I posted. The only issue is whether I intended to insult God, which is impossible, or whether I intended to insult people who believe God causes babies to suffer and die for the sins of their greatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat grandparents. I happen to think there is a real issue to discuss with those who think diseases are deliberately designed by the creator. I certainly accept that they are part of creation, and that reality is such that bad things can exist. But I draw the line at believing that infants suffer and die because some fool 6000 years ago behaved badly.

[f.Christian]

not a great mystery where liberalism came from placemaker !

[AndrewC]

First of all there are no substanitive errors in what I posted.

Neither is 1⁷²⁰. It is an omitted zero, a mathematical kin to a spelling error. And what mistake substantially is called a troll?

As to causes and consequences, soldiers died and were injured recently in Iraq due to the navigational error of an army captain who escaped unscathed. What do we do? Do we accept it and say s**t happens? Or do we acknowledge the error for what it was and correct the cause of the error?

[jennyp]

I happen to think there is a real issue to discuss with those who think diseases are deliberately designed by the creator. I certainly accept that they are part of creation, and that reality is such that bad things can exist. But I draw the line at believing that infants suffer and die because some fool 6000 years ago behaved badly.

I've long though any theism is just an elaborate exercise in reification or anthropomorphization - hence my atheism. However, I think a general concept of God & His relationship to the real world can at least be mostly (or maybe even completely) self-consistent. For instance, I have no problem with the problem of evil in a generic sense: "Good" has no real meaning apart from comparing it to "bad", so even an all-loving creator would have to allow the bad to exist in order for the good to exist, etc.

It's when theists attach to this generic "God" concept a specific story that purports to explain actual historical events performed by a specific God-person that the contradictions really start to clash. At least the Judeo-Christian story does. (Maybe some other religion out there is more internally consistent, I don't know.)

And of course, creationists have tied their emotional commitment to their religion to a belief that this specific story of historical events is actually true & accurate in a literal sense. IMO that's their only real blunder.

Which is why I wish ALS would answer my question of the flagella and the Fall. I suspect he never considered the contradiction before, and is flummoxed by it.

[jennyp]

As to causes and consequences, soldiers died and were injured recently in Iraq due to the navigational error of an army captain who escaped unscathed. What do we do? Do we accept it and say s**t happens? Or do we acknowledge the error for what it was and correct the cause of the error?

Ah, but did the captain admit his error, or is he even today brazening it out?

[f.Christian]

evolution free FREE republic placemaker !

[js1138]

I can del with spelling errors, but I usually proofread before, or more ususlly after, posting. If I see an error that could cause confusion, I correct it. I will grant 1**720 is a typo, but is is just a placeholder for a series of poorly argued posts, not the least of which is the bogus bibliography. We still don't know where that came from. The original source website should be notified.

[js1138]

Like this. This keyboard doesn't like my typing.

[jennyp]

Troll pictures

I agree. The troll pictures are irritating. They're the wrong type of troll.

[f.Christian]

Creationism and ID are to science what Helen Thomas and Hillary Clinton are to womanhood

evolutionists finest ... ripe --- full blown evolving liberalism placemaker!