Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[ALS]

reminds of a poem I once knew..

What is love

but the sum of all good

What is good

but the essence of God

What is God

but the giver of love

Love transcends the evil of men

Man did not create love

which came before him

Without it we would not be

He poured out His life for all to see

of that which was left He gave to thee

When emotions run high

they're sure to destroy

But love covers all

to the last dying boy

It seeks not its own

nor the praises of men

It never asks why

just only when

Through the annals of time

in selfless design

it never cried out

not even a whine

Oh, how I would've gathered you under My wings

secure from the wind

safe from the cold

Few men have heeded

no matter how old

When the sun drips its heat

and the clouds give a heave

Who shall protect thee

when it's you they bereave

Like the hunger in space

which yearns to be filled

So is Hate

when Love is killed

Power is in the tongue

the heart and the hands

When mirth turns to dearth

My wings are like fans

Lifting you up to loftier heights

slicing through the bleakest of nights

Why do you hate

covet and strife

when love is there

to give you new life

If God has a name

I'm sure it would be

something that sounds

like love to me

Maybe the moment

before we die

we understand love

as we look in His eye

But never you fear

that blazing inferno

for as we all know

LOVE IS ETERNAL

[JesseShurun]

is it me or did it suddenly get quiet in here? Why is there no "science" debating going on? No name-calling" Is it me? Should I have used "Right Guard"?

[ALS]

Musta left the Evo-Guard runnin' again..

Automated Evo-Guard ^tm notificator:
All Evos auto-ignorant.
Evo inSecurity settings on high.
Evo IQ level stuck on low.
Evo BS meter offscale

[Alamo-Girl]

What a beautiful poem! Thank you so very much!!!

[Alamo-Girl]

What a beautiful poem! Thank you so very much!!!

[ALS]

Musta left the Evo-Guard runnin' again..

Automated Evo-Guard ^tm notificator:
All Evos auto-ignorant.
Evo inSecurity settings on high.
Evo IQ level stuck on low.
Evo BS meter offscale

[Aric2000]

What do you say to a troll?
Virtual Ignore is the only
answer he deserves!!

Placemarker

[JesseShurun]

I challenge them to go 1000 posts being civil and discussing science, not their old boy football game, where the Christian is the ball. See if they even can (or really want to)

[ALS]

placemarker

[ALS]

I 2nd that. The challenge is on! Let's see if they welch.

[JesseShurun]

CHALLENGE BEGINS NOW

[JesseShurun]

I'll start. How old is the earth do you think, ALS and feel free to use the bible or any other science that makes you think so

[ALS]

older'n all get out

source: grandpappy

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

I can empirically state from direct observation that it is at least 40 years old, possibly more. :-)

[Stultis]

Tell you the truth--and I mean this--I used to have "Deistic moments" routinely until I started arguing with creationists. They're quite rare now. "Faith in things unseen" has for me acquired an association with bizarre disconnection from reality.

I've become more theistic over the years. I suppose, if you really pressed me at any pont, that I've always been and still am an agnostic, but as a young man I was far to the atheistic end of the spectrum, and often called myself an atheist, whereas today I am equally far to the theistic end, and often call myself a theist.

In my case I think creationism helped me to move toward a theistic view, but in a round-about way. I was intially intrigued by creationism when I read Francis Hitchins The Neck of the Giraffe many, many moons ago, and then located and read some of the more conventional creationist works (e.g. by H. Morris & D. Gish) that it referenced.

I didn't buy the main thesis of the creationists, but I thought they might be on to something, that they may be indentifying (if overinterpreting) some real problems with conventional evolutionary theory. So, being a young man then, and having the time for such things, I spent my spare time over several months in some good academic libraries tracing out the footnotes from Henry Morris, Duane Gish, et al.

What I discovered was that creationism was complete, utter and unmitigated bovine excrement. Not one significant creationist claim or interpretation that I investigated checked out. Not one! The evidence supporting them simply did not exist in the original sources, although compelling evidence for their contradiction often did. I was pretty shocked by this actually. I had a great respect for books and, naive young fellow that I was, wouldn't have believed that people who wrote them could engage in the kind of pervasive and perverse prevarication that I discovered.

I also discovered as a result of my investigations that the evidence for evolution was very much stronger than I had imagined, and that the theoretical basis was much more carefully considered and elaborated than I ever would have guessed. So reading the creationist literature transformed me from being somewhat skeptical of evolution to having great confidence in the theory.

At the same time, the realization that, "well, this is clearly b.s.," sort of took a literal interpretation of creation, and corresponding ideas of a tinkering, interventionist God, off the table for me. This eventually led me to think about deeper ways that God might be related to the world as its Creator. So reading creationism also (over a longer time span) did also make me more theistic, but only because it realized it was wrong!

[JesseShurun]

I'll see you forty and raise you 12 :)

[ALS]

"What I discovered was that creationism was complete, utter and unmitigated bovine excrement. Not one significant creationist claim or interpretation that I investigated checked out. Not one! The evidence supporting them simply did not exist in the original sources, although compelling evidence for their contradiction often did. I was pretty shocked by this actually. I had a great respect for books and, naive young fellow that I was, wouldn't have believed that people who wrote them could engage in the kind of pervasive and perverse prevarication that I discovered."

[ALS]

you got me beat by 7, i fold

[JesseShurun]

I'm growing into my IQ, which is 58, then I'll implode

[Aric2000]

2100?