[Reeses]

A modern liberal would say that this disparity was caused not by genetic differences but by society and thus can be changed through social programs backed by the government.

I agree this is what a liberal would say, but that is not what they think. Liberals are very racist but need to project this dirty thought onto others. They also think that if you say a lie enough times it can become the truth. Liberals are convinced of their genetic superiority, they think they won the genetic lottery, and are in love with themselves but must constantly reaffirm their justification for this love.

Plato was an idealist. He started with ideas and worked his way back towards reality. Plato is the prototypical liberal.

[KC Burke]

Thanks for the ping, x.

Reeses says:
Plato was an idealist. He started with ideas and worked his way back towards reality. Plato is the prototypical liberal

...which may well be true as I am not well versed on Plato, but what about his understanding of the limits of greek democracy and the solid recourse to Order and Virtue by his alternatives...sounds kind of like a lot of fellows I know.

I'm afraid that I've had a long aversion to true philosophers. I have some solid reading of Burke, Rand, Kirk and others mentioned, but for true philosophers I'm afraid that Locke was my only exposure. I do know enough to feel that Strauss's subtext issues with many of them does have a lot of merit.

[ztiworoh]

Classical liberal that is, Plato believed that mankind does have inherent rights to free choice.

A modern liberal, be it through misguided egalitarianism or a Huey Long-esque populist quest for power, espouses equality not only of rights but of economic and social situation.

Some Conservatives, especially the social conservative movenment, aswell are convinced of their superiority though not through genetics but through morality. They espouse this moral superiority as a justification of why they should hold power. They too have a sense of egalitarianism directed towards the soul instead of the earthly situation of the person as the liberal aims.

My personal views are that with input from the people either the strongest will prevail or the civilization will be led into self destruction, be it by ignoring their own defense or by a collapse of the social structures within. Thus, the most powerful nations are those whose people have chosen the leaders the best and whose populus have supported their nation either by rising to leadership or working and sustaining the economy.