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To: WhiskeyPapa
Disunion by armed force is treason, and treason must and will be put down at all hazards. The Union is not, and cannot be dissolved until this government is overthrown by the traitors who have raised the disunion flag. Can they overthrow it? We think not."

Illinois State Journal, November 14, 1860

Walt

Lincoln's hometown newspaper would always be a good, reliable source of moderate, unbiased authoritative reporting. Let's see what else they had to say on the issues:

We believe that ABRAHAM LINCOLN, whatever may be the troubles that beset his pathway now, will perform his whole duty to his country and the cause of which he is the representative, and, in 1864, deliver up to his successor the reins of Government over a people reunited, prosperous and happy.

[nc] Oh, yeah.

http://mason.gmu.edu/~rtownsen/Hist615_Maps/Final/Editorials/SpfldDIllStateJnl_3_6_61.htm

Lincoln’s Inaugural Address
Springfield Daily Illinois State Journal
March 6, 1861

The Inaugural Address of our noble Chief Magistrate has electrified the whole country. It has satisfied people of all parties who love the Union and desire its preservation.

[nc] Chief Justice Roger B. Taney dissenting.

* * *

Our telegraphic dispatches inform us that the address is generally well received in the North, but that it does not give entire satisfaction to the South.

[nc] Almost, but not quite, entire satisfaction.

* * *

The Jews once rolled a stone against the Sepulchre to prevent the rising of the Son of God, but as well might they have rolled a stone against the Eastern horizon to prevent the rising of the orb of day, as thus to stifle the fulfilment of prophecy.

[nc] Those jews thought they would get away with it just because they were disguised as Romans.

[nc] Kinda reminds me of Animal House:
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over?" Nothing is over until we decide it it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.

* * *

http://mason.gmu.edu/~rtownsen/Hist615_Maps/Final/Editorials/SpfldDIllStateJnl_4_9_61.htm

The Power of the President to Act Independent of Congress
Springfield Daily Illinois State Journal
April 9, 1861

It is a very common opinion that he simply swears to execute the laws, and from this assumption are deduced some of the most dangerous and fatal conclusions. On the contrary, his obligation is of a still higher nature. HE SWEARS TO PRESERVE, PROTECT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION. In the discharge of this high responsibility, he may, if necessary, discard and reject the law.

* * *

As before remarked, it would be wise to secure the co-operation of Congress, but suppose that Congress is blinded by prejudice or infected with treason, shall the Executive admit that he is the servile tool of Congress or dependent upon it for the exercise of his authority, when he has the army and navy at his command?

* * *

[nc] Yep. When you have an army and a navy at your command, screw Congress. Any of 'em act up, have the army arrest 'em and put 'em in jail or deport 'em.

* * *

... the Executive has the power to collect those revenues.

[nc] Show me the money!

... he has the Constitutional power to collect the revenue in any way that may be deemed expedient for the purpose of suppression treason and maintaining the Constitution.

[nc] Can't be letting all that revenue secede.

313 posted on 06/16/2003 12:28:06 PM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
I am not sure what the point of all this is.

Disunion by armed force -is- treason.

Walt

320 posted on 06/17/2003 3:48:38 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: nolu chan
Lincoln's hometown newspaper would always be a good, reliable source of moderate, unbiased authoritative reporting.

What, that disunion by armed force is treason?

Why did the rebels raise an army of 100,000 when the U.S. armyy was only 17,000?

They knew it was treason. They just didn't care.

But to speak to your point, what the Illinois State Journal did was to say plainly what the Supreme Court had said at least implicitly.

The big four court cases-- Cohens, McCullough, Martin and Chisholm from early in the nation's life make this plain. In all of those cases, the nature of the government is emphasized:

"Here we see the people acting as the sovereigns of the whole country; and in the language of sovereignty, establishing a Constitution by which it was their will, that the state governments should be bound, and to which the State Constitutions should be made to conform. Every State Constitution is a compact made by and between the citizens of a state to govern themeselves in a certain manner; and the Constitution of the United States is likewise a compact made by the people of the United States to govern themselves as to general objects, in a certain manner.

By this great compact however, many prerogatives were transferred to the national Government, such as those of making war and peace, contracting alliances, coining money, etc."

--Chief Justice John Jay, Chisholm v. Georgia 1793

"In the case now to be determined, the defendant, a sovereign state, denies the obligation of a law enacted by the legislature of the Union...In discussing this question, the counsel for the state of Maryland deemed it of some importance, in the construction of the Constitution, to consider that instrument as not emanating from the people, but as the act of sovereign and independent states. It would be difficult to maintain this position....

--John Marshall, majority opinon McCullough v. Maryland 1819

"That the United States form, for many, and for most important purposes, a single nation, has not yet been denied. In war, we are one people. In making peace, we are one people. In all commercial regulations, we are one and the same people. In many other respects, the American people are one; and the government which is alone capable of controlling and managing their interests in all these respects, is the government of the Union. It is their government and in that character, they have no other. America has chosen to be, in many respects, and in many purposes, a nation; and for all these purposes, her government is complete; to all these objects it is competent. The people have declared that in the exercise of all powers given for these objects, it is supreme. It can, then, in effecting these objects, legitimately control all individuals or governments within the American territory.

The constitution and laws of a state, so far as they are repugnant to the constitution and laws of of the United States are absolutely void. These states are constituent parts of the United States; they are members of one great empire--for some purposes sovereign, for some purposes subordinate."

--Chief Justice John Marshall, writing the majority opinion, Cohens v. Virginia 1821

"The constitution of the United States was ordained and established, not by the states in their sovereign capacities, but emphatically, as the preamble of the constitution declares, by "the people of the United States."

-Justice Story, Martin v, Hunter's Lessee, 1816

Disunion by armed force is treason.

Walt

321 posted on 06/17/2003 4:42:22 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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